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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have only been able to source Accurate 5, CCI Small Pistol Primers and Xtreme 124 gn RNs. I've been out of the country and never knew reloading supplies were that tight and difficult to source back in the States.

The Xtreme 124 gn RN projectiles are said to go good in my XD9 5" Tactical from what I have been told. The problem is finding load data. Accurate 5 load data for 124 gn projectiles is all over the shop in COL and min and max grains of powder and of course they don't have Xtreme 124 gn projectiles listed.

I tried Xtreme and they suggested I look it up in Speers#14 for the 9mm 124 grain TMJ but I don't have it, have 3 reloading books already and just don't use anything but a few pages from each so not excited about buying more.

Can anyone suggest load data do a quick lookup for me?

I already have Western Powders' 2016 Load Data Guide if there is something in there I can use as an entry for Xtreme 124's.

EDIT: I'm a rifle reloader, this is my best guess from the Western Powders manual Accurate 5 section if no one can find a Speers entry

Using Berry Plated RN as an educated guess
Min: 5.4 grains (956 fps in 4" barrel)
Max: 6.4 grains (1116 fps in 4" barrel)
COL: 1.160 Inches
Max Pressure: 34,732 PSI

What does the extra inch of the 5" barrel roughly increase the fps to with 9mm?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanky you for replying. I got a delivery today and it was the Xtreme order. I did scratch my head as all the boxes are marked 115 gn and double checking all my receipts it says I ordered the 124 gn. Now I have more of a dilema as I have two plated 115 gn round nose to choose from from the Accurate No.5 load data and both a quite different in the grains of Accurate No. 5 recommended. So Now I need the help of anyone whose gone down this path before but with the 115 gn Xtreme RNs.


Western Powders' 2016 Load Data Guide has two Round Nose Plated 115 gn bullets.

The Berry's are now listed in 115 gn Plated Round Nose "Double Strike" (so they get an extra sizing at the end of the plating process)
Min: 5.6 (1,007 fps in 4" barrel)
Max: 6.6 (1,162 fps in 4" barrel)
Max Pressure: 34,667 PSI
COL: 1.130

And RAIN is now listed as a 115 gn Plated Round Nose
Min: 5.2 (1,062 fps in 4" barrel)
Max: 6.1 (1,170 fps in 4" barrel)
Max Pressure: 34,902 PSI
COL: 1.140

These are wildly different enough to make me pause for thought. Xtreme says their bullets are restruck once more so I would be inclined to use the Berry's data for that reason. For 124 both Berry's and RAIN were listed as RN (no mention of double strike) and both had load data in general agreement with each other so if I was to use that as a basis I would be going with RAIN. Hence the confusion now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've found a post from 2014 that had load data in a Glock forum and they are using Accurate Number 5 powder charge weights that suggest to me that the Berry (P) RNDS data I posted is the more accurate one to use. The Glock forum user is using a larger COL of 1.145 which should be producing reduced pressures than the 1.130 of the Berry listing from the Western Powders' 2016 Load Data Guide. So long as the projectile itself isn't touching the lands (or the Glock equivalent in their barrel) then there shouldn't be any pressure spikes. That Glock forum user found that with their longer COL that 5.8 grains wouldn't cycle the G19 reliably, 6.0 grains would be a light shooting reliable load and 6.2 grains was the users sweet spot.
 

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Load data: It's a plated bullet. Unless the manufacturer EXPLICITLY says to use jacketed data, you use data for lead bullets of that weight. If you can't find lead data, use the starting jacketed load and work-up to the mid-range load, watching for pressure signs without exceeding 1200 fps. ANY 115gn lead bullet uses the same data.
If you go to the X-treme site you'll find the following:
“Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp
Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp”

So, unless you are using the HPCB or HP bullets, keep velocity below 1200fps.
As always, you start at the starting load and work up. I check several sources and start at the lowest starting load. Why? Because ALL the manuals record real-time pressure data per SAAMI specifications, and they all work up the same pressure requirements. Thus, if I see a variation (and I always do), I assume that means that the mix of components (including the exact lot of powder and maybe even the gun) has an impact and I don't have the same mix as ANY manual.
The COL for your gun is NOT found in a manual. The manual only tells you what they used for their gun (which may not even be a semi-auto, so feeding is not an issue) and will usually be quite short (safer for them, as pressure will rise faster with the short COL).
Per Ramshot:
"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove."

So, your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
 

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I've found a post from 2014 that had load data in a Glock forum and they are using Accurate Number 5 powder charge weights that suggest to me that the Berry (P) RNDS data I posted is the more accurate one to use. The Glock forum user is using a larger COL of 1.145 which should be producing reduced pressures than the 1.130 of the Berry listing from the Western Powders' 2016 Load Data Guide. So long as the projectile itself isn't touching the lands (or the Glock equivalent in their barrel) then there shouldn't be any pressure spikes. That Glock forum user found that with their longer COL that 5.8 grains wouldn't cycle the G19 reliably, 6.0 grains would be a light shooting reliable load and 6.2 grains was the users sweet spot.
Use the starting loads if that load functions the gun then you are fine, if not work up in one tenth grain increments.

Don
 

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> I made up 100 rounds of ladder test

Forgive me, but what is a ladder test?
About 10+ years ago, a "ladder test" was discussed for rifles. You would load a round each at increments from start to max load and fire at a target at least 200 yards away--preferably 300 yards.
The point where incremental charge weights all went into about the same spot on the target was supposed to be the accurate "node" for that barrel and you would work up loads in that charge range.
In this case, rather than that "ladder" test, it sounds like you are just doing a standard load work up.
Has the definition of "ladder" changed or what?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No you're right. I've not been shooting since I had a farm and never shot a pistol until now so confusing the terminology with what I could remember.

Its standard load development.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Ok I have the shooting results. I only just started shooting pistol so I think the 6.5 is looking good (just using horizontal spread as the gauge).

Strange enough the 5.8 cycled the slide fine, all loads cycled the slide fine in fact. Odd behavior observed was some low loadings cycled the slide and locked the slide back fine then the next load up cycled the slide but didn't lock the slide back. Once I start loading at a given powder weight then I can get more of a chance to see how reliably that loading will lock the slide back on last round.

No failure to eject or failure to fire issues were found with my Springfield XD 5" Tactical 9mm with any round I reloaded myself and about 600 rounds of Remington factory ammo prior to testing my reloads were fired through the pistol.

I had a friend test his Glock 19 with the same loadings side by side. He had one failure to eject and three failure to fires the latter turning out due to his reloading press quality check not being up to snuff (missing primers) so I'll put those into the bullet puller later. Another oddity is when we switched to factory ammo he also had a failure to feed with Winchester White Box which the gun has exclusively shot 1,200 rounds of. It wouldn't complete chambering, sticking out a mm or two and wouldn't go into battery. The round was ejected, placed into the middle of the existing magazine and chambered and fired perfectly so we are shrugging that one off.

I got into a rhythm until the lane next to me let of some powerful revolver rounds and I just waited until my paper target stopped flopping back and forth in the wind. I did notice upon returning to shooting the rest of the magazine the first round after starting up again usually ended up a flyer and then the rest of the rounds I tended to group better with them.

5.8 grains of #5
Shooting sport Target archery Circle Shooting Recreation


5.9 grains of #5
Shooting sport Target archery Circle Shooting Recreation


6.0 grains of #5
Circle Shooting sport Recreation Shooting Precision sports


6.1 grains of #5
Target archery Shooting sport Recreation Circle Shooting


6.2 grains of #5
Shooting sport Target archery Circle Recreation Shooting


6.3 grains of #5
Target archery Circle Shooting sport Recreation Precision sports


6.4 grains of #5
Shooting sport Circle Target archery Recreation Shooting


6.5 grains of #5
Circle Shooting sport Recreation Shooting Precision sports


6.6 grains of #5
Target archery Circle Recreation Shooting sport Precision sports


6.7 grains of #5
Shooting sport Target archery Recreation Circle Shooting


I didn't continue after this point. The 5" Tactical was absorbing recoil (to me) but I did notice the 6.6-6.7 felt hotter slightly. The Glock 19 shooter said he really felt the 6.7 grains and liked it as he is a bit of a recoil junky.

There we have it.
 
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