XD's fatal flaw

10070 Views 79 Replies 48 Participants Last post by lYxFizzyl, Apr 25, 2005

mindcrime

Discussion Starter · Apr 20, 2005

Let me begin by saying that I love my XD9, and consider it to be almost the equal of my Glock 17 regarding shootability and reliability while having a more ergonomic grip. I generally shoot my G17 a little better which is why I qualified "almost".

The other firearms instructors and I work for a large metro police dept which authorizes personally owned firearms to be carried by our officers. We tested the XD9 about a year ago for safety, reliability, etc. and approved it for duty. Our academy classes have been frequent and full and we have gained a good deal of experience with the XD's since then. The choices of the new officers has been almost evenly divided between Glocks and XD's.

As with past experience, the Glocks have been super reliable. The XD's have not. Nearly every XD suffered malfunctions at one time or another, usually feeding problems. Without exception this has been caused by bent magazine lips. The magazines are not heat treated and the metal is very soft. They bend very easily. We have not had these problems with Glocks, Sigs, Beretta's, S&W's, H&K's, & 1911's.

Springfield apparently is not worried about these problems and has not responded to our input. Our officers are now turning away from the XD because of these issues that could be resolved quite easily. Perhaps more calls for improvement would help as I believe that this is a otherwise a quality weapon system. If more XD owners would contact Springfield and inquire about the magazine problems maybe they could be addressed.

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one-eyed-fatman

· #2 · Apr 20, 2005

mindcrime said:
Let me begin by saying that I love my XD9, and consider it to be almost the equal of my Glock 17 regarding shootability and reliability while having a more ergonomic grip. I generally shoot my G17 a little better which is why I qualified "almost".

The other firearms instructors and I work for a large metro police dept which authorizes personally owned firearms to be carried by our officers. We tested the XD9 about a year ago for safety, reliability, etc. and approved it for duty. Our academy classes have been frequent and full and we have gained a good deal of experience with the XD's since then. The choices of the new officers has been almost evenly divided between Glocks and XD's.

As with past experience, the Glocks have been super reliable. The XD's have not. Nearly every XD suffered malfunctions at one time or another, usually feeding problems. Without exception this has been caused by bent magazine lips. The magazines are not heat treated and the metal is very soft. They bend very easily. We have not had these problems with Glocks, Sigs, Beretta's, S&W's, H&K's, & 1911's.

Springfield apparently is not worried about these problems and has not responded to our input. Our officers are now turning away from the XD because of these issues that could be resolved quite easily. Perhaps more calls for improvement would help as I believe that this is a otherwise a quality weapon system. If more XD owners would contact Springfield and inquire about the magazine problems maybe they could be addressed.

We tested the XD9 about a year ago for safety, reliability, etc. and approved it for duty.

But then you say...

Nearly every XD suffered malfunctions at one time or another, usually feeding problems.

You seem to be a very confused person. :?

Arrowman

· #3 · Apr 20, 2005

:? ok so are you just bashing our gun cuz you want to or is this just an FYI? whats the point of what you are saying? you dont seem to offer any solutions or anything...i dont even see any really questions being asked of us....what gives dude?

Verm

· #4 · Apr 20, 2005

The XD mags are factory stainless steel and I am not sure what you guys are using, but I have 4 .40 mags that I had to bend the lips in on to use with my 9mm and they weren't easy to bend. They have 2400 rounds through them now and the lips have not moved at all. They are loaded with 13 rounds of 9mm constantly so if what you say is correct, they should have moved with the stress the loaded rounds and spring are placing on them.
As for my .40 Service, I have 8 factory mags, 4 of which are the new design 12rd models that have now seen over 5000 rounds. I have yet to see any movement on the lips with these either. Are you testing the new magazines that Springfield has redesigned? If not, you may want to do that. It may be a fix to your "problem"

P.S. what dept. are you testing for? I was an LEO instructor as well and I keep in touch with friends in different depts. around the country. All the ones that have tested the XDs for their own dept. issue have not had any problems yet. I would just like to relay your report with your dept. to them so they can check so should it come up as a problem with their testing, they can verify with your dept. and have an existing failure report onhand to collaborate with when they have to file their report to Springfield.

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JimLongley

· #5 · Apr 20, 2005

Interesting. I have not experienced those problems with any of my XD magazines, either the original issue ones or the ones that were meant for other guns that are also useable in the XD.

I shoot an XD9 and use .40cal mags from time to time. I did have to adjust the feed lips a little, but that's a function I am used to, being an old Teletype mechanic. I have all of the proper tools to make the adjustments and have not found them to be changing to any great extent.

I also have several of the 17 round mags that Springfield offered a while back, and since they were already 9mm mags I haven't really had to do any major tweaking on them. All of my mags have been 100% reliable, with the exception of a couple of the .40 mags that needed to be fine tuned, and that's through lots of rounds of IDPA. My wife even used a couple of them when she re-qualified for her CHL last week, with the only problem being when she dropped a mag and a round popped out, which I would expect to happen with just about any mag.

Are you sure you haven't got the wrong size mags, maybe .40s in 9mms? I don't know how you could tell whether they are heat treated or not.

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Verm

· #6 · Apr 20, 2005

Well it could be they were using first gen magazines since it was over a year ago when they were testing. We need to hear from the IDPA guys since the competition shooters put their guns/magazines through much more than a standard agency does when testing for acceptance.

Fingolfin

· #7 · Apr 20, 2005

Quality magazines are one of the XD's better aspects in my opinion. Can only speak from my own experience though. Springfield definitely needs to address your concerns regardless.

ajamesp51

· #8 · Apr 20, 2005

Well you posted the same thing over at Glocktalk as well.
I dont think I can recal one member here saying that not heat treated feed lips were a problem. I have a stack of 30 xd mags that I use for compitions and they get droped all the time and none have yet to bend so bad that the mag lips deform way out of wack. Infact I recomend bending the feedlips when using other calibres. What were the malfunctions exact your the instructer teach us what happened and how often did it occur what was done to remidy the situation. What were these mags droped on concrete and were the mags full or empty.
It the mag lips were bent all to hell in back SA should have replaced them did they. You should have an XD armorer of course so what was his fix. What police dept do you work for and wht cant you let us know its not national security what dept issue so why the secrecy. Your the only "police" department I have ever heard with this problem and I know people that shoot the xd alot and drop mags all the time and do not have these problems. In fact the only time I have ever heard this problem with and xd was with aftermarket promags. For my book I had interviewed some different police departments so I am interested in adding your departments information as well.

By the way my mags have many several thousands of rounds through them and are dropped during practice and compitition about several hundred times a week in dirt and rocks. How often do other competitors drop their xd mags.

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ajamesp51

· #9 · Apr 20, 2005

Oh how do you tell if the xd mags are heat treated or not becuase I have to check mine.

slowpoke13

· #10 · Apr 20, 2005

I read the original post and assumed he was trolling (is that what you call it?). It seemed like too well spun of a story for a regular here.

Maybe I'm just paranoid...

Verm

· #11 · Apr 20, 2005

I drop mine during practice all the time and usually I step on them as well

Don

· #12 · Apr 20, 2005

ajamesp51 said:
Oh how do you tell if the xd mags are heat treated or not becuase I have to check mine.

If they are 300 series stainless (from what I understand) then they can not be heat treated. I think that the entire 400 series stainless can be treated/tempered. 17-4PH is able to be treated also, not sure where it sets in the 300-400 series of nomemclature (or if it can even set in there). 18-8 stainless is roughly 303 stainless so would not be heat treatable either.

No problems with my lips either (other than when they get a little loose at work :shock: ).

backstay

· #13 · Apr 20, 2005

slowpoke13 said:
I read the original post and assumed he was trolling (is that what you call it?). It seemed like too well spun of a story for a regular here.

Maybe I'm just paranoid...

Just because your paranoid, dosen't mean they aren't after you!

willbond

· #14 · Apr 20, 2005

He joined over a year ago and has 8 posts. I smell a troll. I've never heard of this "issue" either, but I bet we'll start hearing about it from Glocksters pretty soon. Oh well. :?

dsg2003gt

· #15 · Apr 20, 2005

willbond said:
He joined over a year ago and has 8 posts. I smell a troll. I've never heard of this "issue" either, but I bet we'll start hearing about it from Glocksters pretty soon. Oh well. :?

thats not very nice...i own a glock and i am in the market for the xd40 sc.

willbond

· #16 · Apr 20, 2005

Not knocking Glocks, or Glocksters. I might even buy one one day. The point is, if XD's had a "soft feed lip" issue I think we'd know about it by now. Doesn't make sense. :?

dsg2003gt, this is the XD Forum. We like our XD's, but not to the point where we make excuses for them. The weak points of the XD are pretty well known by now. The finish is crap, we all know it, and most people that own one look forward to having theirs refinished sooner rather than later. Some of the XD40's had Feed problems, but that was worked out.

Possibilities:
1) The guy has identified a serious issue with the magazine feed lips.
2) The guy has identified a less-than-serious issue with the magazine feed lips.
3)The guy mistakenly believes the XD has an issue with the magazine feed lips.
4)The guy knows there is no issue with the feed lips and is making it up for reasons unknown.
5) The guy is a Saboteur who is intentionally planting a false rumor about the XD to hurt its reputation and he should be Drawn and Quartered and the pieces fed to the Hyenas at the Zoo.

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Delija

· #17 · Apr 20, 2005

slowpoke13 said:
I read the original post and assumed he was trolling (is that what you call it?). It seemed like too well spun of a story for a regular here.

Maybe I'm just paranoid...

I got the same feeling. This person made a claim about a "fatal" fault of the XD...ok, that's fine.

According to him, XDs are highly problematic. Glocks are totally reliable.
Fair enough. But to find the big fault to be "soft metal" in the magazines?

If the stainless steel magazines are the fatal flaw, and the Glock's plastic magazines are the solution, then why are the other guns he mentioned not having the same problem as the XD? I looked at the Metalform magazines that came with my SA 1911. They are stainless also. They look to be the same gauge steel as used on the XD mags. I cannot imagine why one would deform and the other would not.

I certainly don't know much at all about metalurgy...but I have never heard of "soft" stainless steel.

Peace,
D.

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jcrich33

· #18 · Apr 20, 2005

Wait, I'm confused. It went through testing and was approved for duty, yet is has a chronic feeding problem due to poor magazine construction? I'm not saying it never happens with the XD, but that makes no sense. If the design is that flawed, why approve it for duty?

Also, are you saying that the Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, HKs, S&W's and "1911's" that have been tested and approved have never had feed issues, or for that matter, any problems at all? Ever?

P.S.

You should say which department you work for. Not may large city police departments approve single action firearms for use.

aiformula

· #19 · Apr 20, 2005

willbond said:
I've never heard of this "issue" either, but I bet we'll start hearing about it from Glocksters pretty soon. Oh well. :?

If you haven't then you didn't read my post on fixing my cycling issue a week or two ago.

http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=20406

Dropping partial mags has resulted in bent mag fronts, specifically the front corner near the cutout for the slide lock actuator. When they bend in, it leads to feed issues because the rounds catch on the front lip of the mag. It happened to me again last night in a steel match w/ frangible ammo. One of the mags I had "fixed" failed last night.

Offhand, I don't know the solution other than not dropping full/partial mags.

willbond

· #20 · Apr 20, 2005

You're right aiformula, I hadn't read your thread.

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