[pbcaster45]

Finally got a chance to chronograph some of the loads I've been working on for my Springer Precision Open Gun. It's Bar-Sto Barrel has a pretty short throat so I can't load very long. I'm fine with that since I'm not interested in shooting 9mm Major loads anyway (for now!)

Bullet: Winchester 115 gr. JHP
Powder: Winchester WSF 5.7 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.115 (.839 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1260.13 fps
ES: 21.16
SD: 7.93
Comments: Very accurate! Functioned 100%. Primers look like those from a +P factory load – no pierced primers or primer leakage.

Bullet: Winchester 115 gr. JHP
Powder: Hodgdon HS-6 7.3 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.115 (.839 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1357.84 fps
ES: 32.87
SD: 11.00
Comments: Primers show some flattening but no pierced primers or leakage. Cases eject same distance as a factory load before compensator installation (about 5 feet, right and rear).

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: Winchester WSF 4.65 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.075 (.812 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1099.55 fps
ES: 23.04
SD: 9.64
Comments: Very mild, more dot bounce than heavier loads.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: IMR SR-4756 5.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.075 (.812 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1010.35 fps
ES: 42.57
SD: 18.45
Comments: Extremely mild, cases almost falling at feet


Having a lot of fun with this tricked out gun!

 

[57K]

Very nice pistol and great report! Since I've been away for a while I'll say welcome to the forum! WSF is a powder I wouldn't mind having for similar loads. I've used HS-6 for years and for my +P loads it's mainly Silhouette for defense loads and True Blue for most others including .45 ACP these days.

 

[pbcaster45]

I tested some more loads yesterday. Hodgdon HS-6 is turning out to be the best powder so far. Had just enough left to load 140 test rounds with the Montana Gold 124 gr JHP. I'll post the results after I chronograph them...

 

[gandalf]

I'd be interested in some loads for a 5.25 XDM 9mm that I could shoot Limited 10 Major with. I have 115 gr Hornady JHP's and a variety of 124-147gr plated and moly coated. Win and CCI primers, Power Pistol, Unique, and W231.

Any suggestions or direction appreciated.

BTW, nice pistol!

JD

 

[JustSomeGuy]

@Gandalf... Unless things have changed more than I would have thought possible since I left competition, you cannot shoot Limited 10 Major with a 9mm handgun. Only Open Division includes rules allowing for anything less than .40cal or "9mm Major" in competition as far as I know. You can shoot your 9mm in Limited 10, but it will only be scored minor as far as I know, and so put you at a disadvantage in that your hits would all have to be "A" scores as otherwise you simply would not put up enough points to compete against 40 or 45 caliber guns. In Production Division your 9mm will do just fine, but there the hits are ALL scored as "minor" which requires only 125PF and less than 165PF, and most will have guns shooting rounds producing about 130-135PF to be competitive.

Major is still scored as 165 power factor or greater, meaning that the bullet weight times the velocity divided by 1000 would have to be equal or better than 165, (most competitors will be shooting about 170-172PF in major) and doing that with a bullet smaller than .40cal is allowed only in Open Division where 38 Super, 9X23, and 9X19 in specially prepared guns are used a lot because of the magazine capacity advantage of the smaller diameter rounds (in magazines of 170mm length and smaller where capacity is at least 20 and up to 26rnds.) over even the 40cal, which is still used a lot in Open, but suffers from lack of magazine capacity on long courses of fire, requiring an extra reload which may or may not affect your score if you do it right.

 

[pbcaster45]

Finally got out to chronograph some more test loads. I'm getting a little burned out doing so much testing but I found a great practice load using the Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP and 5.7 grs. SR-4756.

Have to qualify the "mild recoil" comments, I'm using a compensator so some loads might be a little snappy in a regular gun.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. CMJ
Powder: IMR SR-4756 5.7 grs. (Little Dandy Rotor #10)
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.129 (.843 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1128.26 fps
ES: 78.81
SD: 23.66
Comments: Average accuracy with mild recoil, but 5.2 grs WSF even better.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: IMR SR-4756 5.7 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.090 (.825 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1149.34 fps
ES: 31.54
SD: 9.05
Comments: Revised seating depth. Best SR-4756 load tested.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. CMJ
Powder: Winchester WSF 5.2 gr.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.129 (.843 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1186.71 fps
ES: 34.28
SD: 11.09
Comments: Very accurate with mild recoil.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: Alliant Herco 5.5 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.075 (.812 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1219.08 fps
ES: 53.33
SD: 15.39
Comments: Doesn’t meter very well but not bad, sooty.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: Hodgdon HS-6 6.4 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.075 (.812 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1239.02 fps
ES: 55.44
SD: 19.94
Comments: Very accurate! Too bad, that was the last of my HS-6.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Herco in 9mm... who'da thunk it!

 

[57K]

The MG 124 gr. JHP is very popular for competition. Switching to it and going to a shorter OACL using 5.7 grs. of SR 4756 vs. the 124 gr. CMJ shows considerable improvement including cutting the SD's down by more than half to 9.05. SR 4756 is a single-based flake powder where Herco is double-based. Your comments about Herco are pretty consistent to what others have found over the years. It used to be more popular in 9mm for higher velocity at standard pressure, but more and more shooters discovered spherical powders like HS-6 is even better for that. I've even had MAX. loads with Blue Dot group around 1/2" at 50' with the WIN. 115 gr. JHP loaded to 1.142", but that changed in favor of 124 gr. JHPs using sphericals, particularly 3N37 and my loads were obviously faster than what you're looking for.

The WSF load looks very promising considering you used the CMJ. Might be exceptional with the 124 gr. JHP. WSF seems to do very well for Standard pressure loads and according to Hodgdon's data, you're very close to a MAX. charge. Since recoil is a significant factor in comp shooting, I'd take a closer look and use the MG 124 gr. JHP.

HS-6 has always been a great 9mm powder but powder charges have been continually reduced. You're probably at a higher velocity than you want already, but pushing HS-6 harder would give you accuracy as good or better while giving better uniformity where your SDs could be a good bit lower. Since Silhouette is based on HS-6 chemistry, you'll find a similar situation with it where higher velocity loads produce excellent accuracy with single digit SDs. Probably my best load with the MG 124 gr. JHP was with 6.2 grs. of Silhouette at 1.142" that chrono'd 1163 FPS from my 4.14" SR9 where ES was 22 and SD was 6. This is a top-end charge for Standard pressure but at an OACL that is probably too long for your XDm or Bar-Sto chamber. Oddly enough, from my shooting partner's S&W Shield, the same load produced 1108 FPS with an SD of 5! Using the same components and OACL, 5.1 grs. of W231 gave 1102 FPS with an SD of 9 while 4.8 grs. of ZIP gave 1060 FPS with an SD of 8! Another decent load but with the old style REM. 124 gr. JHP at 1.142" was with 6.5 grs. of 3N37 that averaged 1156 FPS with an SD of 8. Since you don't need velocity as high and can't use an OACL as long, any of these powders should have great potential at lower charge weights using a shorter OACL. I've also used WST with the MG 124 gr. JHP to get 1061 FPS where SD was 15. It didn't show enough promise to warrant further development.

For your pistol and the velocity you want, if it were me, I'd have to try True Blue here. I did not use it as much with the MG 124 gr. JHP, but did reproduce an earlier +P type load where velocity was 1216 FPS, ES at 36 with an SD of 10. My last load development was with the Blue Bullet's 125 gr. RN that was a 2 step diameter bullet that has been discontinued in favor of a RN that's shaped like an FMJ and has no crimp or lube groove. I'm sure I'll end up using it anyway, but with the older style bullet, also loaded to 1.142" that might have worked in an XD chamber because of the smaller diameter shank above the shoulder to the ogive. This is more consistent to the type of loads you're looking for and with the 125 gr. RN poly-coated bullet, accuracy is impressive. With 6.0 grs. of True Blue and a CCI-500 primer in mixed headstamp brass, 10 rounds averaged 1108 FPS, ES was 26 with an SD of 8. Bumping that load by .2 grs. to 6.2 with everything else identical, velocity was 1122 FPS, ES was 12 and SD was 3! Definitely my idea of a comp load and I'm lovin' the poly-coated bullets!

 

[pbcaster45]

57K,

Thanks for all the good insight! I've been looking for Silhouette and True Blue for weeks, nothing available. I had a chance to get some Auto Comp two months ago but I procrastinated. I've been reloading for over 35 years and I've never seen shortages this bad. Seems to have started in 2008 and probably won't improved until 2016...

 

[57K]

57K,

Thanks for all the good insight! I've been looking for Silhouette and True Blue for weeks, nothing available. I had a chance to get some Auto Comp two months ago but I procrastinated. I've been reloading for over 35 years and I've never seen shortages this bad. Seems to have started in 2008 and probably won't improved until 2016...

28 years here, Buddy, and I've never seen anything remotely close. Unfortunately, the demo-communists won't relinquish their stranglehold on America. Have you ever heard of a Commander-in-Thief who grants himself the power to declare MARSHALL LAW through executive order. Na, there's no government complicity here! With MARSHALL LAW enacted for whatever reason, it could indefinitely suspend national elections. We're treading on serious ground here and unfortunately, the majority of the American electorate can not read nor COMPREHEND the US Constitution. Add sell-out gun-owners who helped elect the democommies with abortionists and homosexual groups and we might be lucky if pro constitutionalists even make up 1/3 of the electorate today. That while we need to reform immigration to allow more illiterates to become part of the electorate, yet no-one seems to smell a communist rat on the national level.

So yeah, we need to enjoy it while we can. I hope you can find True Blue in particular. I've never experienced any powder quite like it. I'll be glad to give you the load if I haven't already that gave me a 10 round SD of 3. This while it gives me single digit SDs in .45 ACP with cast, poly-coated or JHP bullets. For short barreled defense loads in .357 Magnum it's the single best powder I've used and I've used some very good ones including loads where I trimmed down .357 Magnum brass to .38 Sp. length to help revolvers that had difficulties ejecting factory loads. Silhouette is my go-to for +P type velocity loads in 9mm and I've been using Enforcer for a number of years now for Magnum revolver loads in .357 and .41 Mag. In the old single powder scenario, True Blue would be an easy choice for me to make.

 

[davojuri]

Finally got a chance to chronograph some of the loads I've been working on for my Springer Precision Open Gun. It's Bar-Sto Barrel has a pretty short throat so I can't load very long. I'm fine with that since I'm not interested in shooting 9mm Major loads anyway (for now!)

Bullet: Winchester 115 gr. JHP
Powder: Winchester WSF 5.7 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.115 (.839 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1260.13 fps
ES: 21.16
SD: 7.93
Comments: Very accurate! Functioned 100%. Primers look like those from a +P factory load – no pierced primers or primer leakage.

Bullet: Winchester 115 gr. JHP
Powder: Hodgdon HS-6 7.3 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.115 (.839 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1357.84 fps
ES: 32.87
SD: 11.00
Comments: Primers show some flattening but no pierced primers or leakage. Cases eject same distance as a factory load before compensator installation (about 5 feet, right and rear).

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: Winchester WSF 4.65 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.075 (.812 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1099.55 fps
ES: 23.04
SD: 9.64
Comments: Very mild, more dot bounce than heavier loads.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: IMR SR-4756 5.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.075 (.812 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1010.35 fps
ES: 42.57
SD: 18.45
Comments: Extremely mild, cases almost falling at feet


Having a lot of fun with this tricked out gun!

Hi where did you get that compensator that is without lower part like ones for 4.5"xdm's????

 

[pbcaster45]

davojuri,


It's an option to get the lower portion machined off when you order the part direct from Springer Precision. Don't hesitate to email Springer Precision with questions - I had plenty (some kind of obvious!) but they answered anyway!


Can't recommend Springer Precision enough...

 

[iCreek]

pbcaster45 - I could not get 9mm minor loads to work with a 14 or 16 lb recoil springs we had lots of FTE, so many we swithed to 9mm Major and the 3 port comp. We load HS6, 7.4 Grains, a 124 Jacketed Precision Delta, or a 124 Berrys Plated bullet.

 

[pbcaster45]

I don't get it, our guns are almost identical! I was trying a load with the Sierra 90 gr. JHP today and even it worked (though the cases didn't eject very far). Might try to chronograph it tomorrow, I'm guessing the velocity is probably close to 1400 fps.

Bullet: Sierra 90 gr. JHP
Powder: IMR SR-4756 6.3 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.020 (0.822 with Stoney Point)
Comments: Accurate, very odd recoil (almost none!) No signs of excess pressure even though this is a maximum charge.

 

[pbcaster45]

Well, so much for guessing! Here are the chronograph results - all pressure signs normal with rounded primers. It seemed like the load with SR-4756 was more accurate but I wasn't really shooting for groups. Function was 100%


Bullet: Sierra 90 gr. JHP
Powder: IMR SR-4756 6.3 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.020 (0.822 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1294.41 fps
ES: 57.20
SD: 17.52

Bullet: Sierra 90 gr. JHP
Powder: Winchester WSF 5.9 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.020 (0.822 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1432.82 fps
ES: 36.29
SD: 13.00

 

[pbcaster45]

I was really getting burned out on all the experimenting but in the last two weeks I've manage to pick up 231, WSF, Auto Comp and CFE Pistol. I'm back on the job! Tried this combo today (hopefully I can chronograph it tomorrow) and I may just have a new favorite 9mm powder. I didn't think anything could beat SR-4756 but this might just do it - very accurate!

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: Winchester Auto Comp 4.6 grs
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.090 (.825 with Stoney Point)

 

[57K]

Good to see you're back at it with some powder finds. W231 according to legend is one of the greatest powders available for .45 ACP along with Bullseye and Unique. So much for legend and I pretty much keep it around as a standby. As I've mentioned, ZIP is a very similar powder and one thing they have in common in my loads is that they actually seem to do better in 9mm.

These loads are long at 1.142"/29mm, but they were made with the MG 124 gr. JHP and for whatever reason, I used a higher charge of 231 than ZIP.

MG 124 gr. JHP @ 1.142" with 5.1 grs. of 231, 10 shot avg. was 1102, ES was 27 with SD at 9 FPS.

MG 124 gr, JHP @ 1.142" with 4.8 grs. of ZIP, 10 shot avg. was 1060, ES was 32 with SD at 8 FPS.

That was from my 4.14" SR9 on 9/18/13. Later, I bought some NOSLER 124 gr. JHPs to find that their only application in 9 x 19mm loads is for plinking, but they are accurate and this next load used a shorter OACL.

NOSLER 124 gr. JHP @ 1.122"/28.5mm with 5.0 grs. of 231, 10 shot avg. was 1040, ES was 15 with SD at 5 FPS, 129 PF. SD is good enough that I'd try to get away with it at 5 & 129 PF. That was on 6/5/14 also from the SR9 so all 3 were tested in pretty warm weather.

 

[pbcaster45]

Not real fun at the range today... stupid hot! But for the sake of science I stuck with it. I thought Auto Comp was going to be my new favorite 9mm powder and then I tried CFE! Awesome stuff! Don't know about it's ability to remove copper but the accuracy was very good! Here are todays test loads.

All had rounded primers after firing - these are starting loads.

Bullet: Sierra 90 gr. JHP
Powder: Hodgdon CFE Pistol 6.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.020 (.822 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1372.04 fps
ES: 20.18
SD: 7.68
Comments: Good accuracy but WSF still the velocity champ.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: Winchester Auto Comp 4.6 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.090 (.825 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1049.23 fps
ES: 21.58
SD: 5.56
Comments: Accurate but low powered, some cornmeal residue.

And my new favorite. Still needs some work but looks promising.

Bullet: Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP
Powder: Hodgdon CFE Pistol 5.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: Federal
LOAL: 1.090 (.825 with Stoney Point)
Avg. Vel.: 1108.45 fps
ES: 13.84
SD: 4.58
Comments: Less cornmeal residue than Auto Comp (may just need a little more powder when using WAC).

I meant to take some group pictures but forgot my digital camera. Had to use my cell phone and it's pretty useless...

Ten rounds rapid fire at 20 yards with the MG 124 gr. JHP and CFE.

 

[MROLLAND]

Try some major loads out of that xdm the more gas u give it the less it kicks im runing 8.4 grains 3n38 124 xtreem plaeted bulled shoots like a 22 lr ALMOST EXACT SAME SET UP AS U HAVE ONLY IM RUNING A C-MORE SIGHT SAME BARRELL AND BREAK THO

 

[XDmax]

That XDm is nasty looking. What competition are you shooting in?