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Yes, I just purchased my 4" Service XD9 last week and I'm very happy with it. The only question about it now is what are some good hollow points to buy for it. Where I bought it from the owner told me Black Hills 124gr. were great & I read articles saying Federal Hydra-Shock 124gr. were great? Can't really decide which would put out better for it. Don't know what type of read outs to look for.
 

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9x19mm:

115gr +p+ Federal 9BPLE at 1,300fps

124gr +p ProLoad Tactical Gold Dot at 1,200fps

124gr +p Remington Golden Saber at 1,180fps

147gr Remington Golden Saber at 990fps

In 9x19mm, most shooters prefer lighter bullets (115gr to 125gr) at +p or +p+ velocities. The Federal 9BPLE load is technically sold to law enforcement only, but is usually available at gun shows and over the internet. A very similar load is the ProLoad 115gr +p Tactical Gold Dot, which also has a muzzle velocity of 1,300fps.

The middle weight ProLoad 124gr +p Tactical tends to have greater penetration than most fast 9mm loads, and is one of the most accurate rounds we have ever tested. For those who want more reliable expansion through heavy clothing, the Golden Saber is a good choice. If you can find it, the “Law Enforcement Only” 124gr +p+ Federal Hydra-Shok has a very good reputation as well.

For those who want a heavyweight in nine millimeter, the Golden Saber from Remington probably has the most consistent expansion at such slow speeds. And while it has something of a jaded history, the 147gr Federal Hydra-Shok is another good choice in this category
 

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Virtually all 9mm defense loads are of decent quality today. I believe it is more important as to how it shoots in your gun. Try a variety to see what flavor she likes.
My HS seems to prefer 124gr. fodder.
 

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How about Winchester Silver Tips?
Yeah, it's been on the market for a long time, but it's still good isn't it?
I just bought a box of 50 at the last gunshow. Cost about 12 bux.

(responses regarding werewolves need not comment :p )
 

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I thought ProLoad was out of business?

For my XD-9 service I used Winchester Ranger 127g +P+ for defensive ammo. It has some of the best expansion and pentration statistics for the 9mm platform.

For the XD-9 SCs, I use Speer 124g +P rounds designed for short barrel pistols.

That's personal preference, mind you. I am not a big fan of 147g 9mm ammo for defensive purposes. Pretty much any modern defensive round is going to do it's job if you do yours. BTW, I do not count Federal Hydrashoks and Silver Tips in the "modern" category. They are decent rounds, but there are, IMHO, better modern designs available.
 

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My primary self defense round has been Federal Hydra-shok, 147 gr. JHP. I have recently been experimenting with Speer Gold-dot in 147 gr. as well.. The reason that I am considering the change is because the balistic tests I have read suggest that the Federal HS has a hit or miss ability to penetrate durable outer clothing.. eg... Denim.

Why the 147 gr. bullet you ask? One of my biggest concerns is overpenetration. I want the bullet to stop with the person I shoot. Preferably it will stop inside him.. but I certainly don't want it to go through him and strike an innocent. Also, the 147 gr. bullet seems to have less luck penetrating walls. This is important to me because if I do ever have to shoot a bad guy, there is a reasonable chance it will be in my own home.. and I would just as soon the projectile not go through a wall and into my kids bedroom should my first shot miss.

That's my thinking on the subject..

Raymond
 

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You might want to look at this from Doctor Gary Roberts of TacticalForums.com. He is a nationally recognized ballistics expert who has done extensive testing for the military (He is a Navy Lt. Commander) and le.

posted 04-30-2005 02:01 AM
For the first time in over a year, we were able to conduct some LE focused terminal performance testing in 10% ordnance gel:

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Out of a 2” J-frame:

.38 Sp Safestop 148 gr plated WC, standard pressure, ave vel=744f/s
BG: pen=20”+, RD=0.36”, RW=148.1gr
Denim: pen=19.0”, RD=0.37”, RW=149.1gr
auto windshield: pen=14.2”, RD=0.44”, RW=140.9gr

.38 Sp Speer 135 gr +P JHP Gold Dot (53921), ave vel=856f/s
BG: pen=13.1”, RD=0.56”, RW=134.5gr
4 layer denim: pen=13.6”, RD=0.53”, RW=134.1gr
auto windshield: pen=9.4”, RD=0.51”, RW=129.6gr

These two .38 sp loads tested were specifically crafted for 2” BUG revolvers; they offer the best terminal performance of any loads we have ever seen fired from a J-frame and can both be strongly recommended for BUG use. The Safestop WC is milder shooting and offers better barrier performance; the Gold Dot JHP offers the most reliable expansion we have seen from a 2”, but recoils more and does not handle intermediate barriers as well. Pick the one you prefer…

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.357 Mag Win 180 gr Partition Gold (S357P) from S&W 686 4”
BG: vel=1075, pen=18.1”, RD=.57”, RW=171.1gr
4 layer denim: vel=1090 f/s, pen=20+”, RD=0.53, RW=175.6gr
auto windshield: vel=1072, pen=20+”, RD=0.39, RW=178.0gr

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9 mm Corbon 100 gr +P PowerBall 1555 f/s from G17
BG: pen=10.9”, RD=0.60”, RW=93.9gr
4 layer denim: pen=11.4”, RD=0.58”, RW=97.5gr
The mighty 4.7” of pen after the auto windshield was not comforting…

.40 S&W Corbon 135 gr Powerball from S&W 4006
BG: vel=1362 f/s, pen=11.6”, RD=0.65”, RW=131.4gr
4 layer denim: vel=1359 f/s, pen=12.1”, RD=0.65”, RW=131.9gr
auto windshield: vel=1365 f/s, pen=7.9”, RD=0.61”, RW=103.6gr

.45 ACP Corbon 135 gr +P Powerball from 1911
BG: vel=1230 f/s, pen=12.1”, RD=0.70”, RW=158.8gr
4 layer denim: vel=1267 f/s, pen=11.8”, RD=0.66”, RW=159.7gr
auto windshield: vel=1251 f/s, pen=5.5”, RD=0.73”, RW=143.5gr

The frequent core-jacket separations and rounded leading edges of the PB loads are a concern, as is their poor terminal performance after intermediate barrier penetration. We were frankly unimpressed with these loads. If you have to use Corbon handgun loads, stick with their DPX loadings of the superb Barnes XPB all copper bullets.

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9mm Fed 147 gr JHP HST (P9HST2) from G17:
BG: vel=1037f/s, pen=11.9”, RD=0.64”, RW=147.8gr
4 layer denim: vel=1049f/s, pen=14.7”, RD=0.54”, RW=147.5gr
auto windshield: vel=1042 f/s, pen=13.4”, RD=0.53”, RW=140.4gr

.40 S&W Fed 180 gr JHP HST (P40HST1) from S&W 4006
BG: vel=960 f/s, pen=12.6”, RD=.65”, RW=181.1gr
4 layer denim: vel=961 f/s, pen=15.6”, RD=0.62, 181.3 gr
auto windshield: vel=904 f/s, pen=15.2”, RD=0.47”, RW=180.4gr

.45 ACP Fed 230 gr +P JHP HST (P45HST1) from 1911
BG: vel=926 f/s, pen=12.6”, RD=.74”, RW=231.8gr
4 layer denim: vel=915 f/s, pen=15.4”, RD=0.67, 231.1 gr
auto windshield: vel=918 f/s, pen=19.7”, RD=0.54”, RW=228.6gr

As previously reported, the initial production Federal HST bullets failed to expand reliably in denim testing. The new versions appear to have solved this deficiency and offer good terminal performance across the spectrum.

-- Note: When reporting the RD of handgun bullets like the Federal HST, Nosler Partition Gold, and Barnes XPB, it is important to recall that the correct RD is the average of the SMALLEST and LARGEST measurements taken at the leading face of the bullet. Several recent tests seem to be incorrectly reporting the expansion of these types of bullets, improperly using only the largest measurement to offer an exaggerated RD size.

The Win 124 gr +P Ranger Talon (RA124TP) load carries on in the outstanding fashion that has been the hallmark of the Ranger-T loads. From a G17:
BG: vel=1242f/s, pen=13.0”, RD=0.62”, RW=114.7gr
4 layer denim: vel=1238f/s, pen=13.0”, RD=0.59”, RW=116.8gr
Auto windshields: vel=1235 f/s, pen=18.9”, RD=0.50”, RW=117.5gr

Win 147 gr JHP Ranger Talon (RA9T) from G17
BG: vel=987f/s, pen=15”, RD=0.59”, RW=148.1gr
4 layer denim: vel=1005f/s, pen=15.7”, RD=0.55”, RW=144.1gr

Win 230 gr +P JHP Ranger Talon (RA45TP) from 1911
BG: vel=950f/s, pen=15.7”, RD=0.59”, RW=195.5gr
4 layer denim: vel=958f/s, pen=15.2”, RD=0.72”, RW=230.2gr

Note: During the BG test with the RA45TP, some over expansion with folding back of the petals, along with fragmentation was observed, resulting in less expansion than usually seen with this bullet-probably as a result of the velocity being on the hot side. The bullet worked perfectly in the denim testing.

Personally, I use the Winchester Ranger Talon in 9mm 147gr. Since I now have a SA 1911, I will be returning to my former dept.'s range and purchasing the Talon 230 +P, even tho I only use it at the range. At $11 for a box of 50 9mm, I know the 45 is similarly priced, so it's worth the drive to L.A.
 

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You might also want to look at earlier test he did in 2003, which encompassed other brands. I would guess they are still valid today in most respects.

Dr. Robert's comments start below.

As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .



Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

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The following loads have all demonstrated outstanding terminal performance:

9 mm:
Barnes 105 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Fed 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Win 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Win 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Fed 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Rem 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer 147 gr JHP (53619)
Win 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

.40 S&W:
Speer 155 gr JHP (53961)
Fed 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Fed 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Rem 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer 180 gr JHP (53966)
Win 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

.45 ACP:
Barnes/Taurus 185 gr JHP
Federal 230 gr Tactical (LE45T1)
Speer 230 gr Gold Dot (23966).
Winchester 230 gr Ranger Talon (RA45T)
Winchester 230 gr +P Ranger Talon (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- While the .45 ACP Barnes/Taures all copper 185 gr JHP is just slightly deficient in penetration, I would not hesitate to use this load when a lower penetration projectile is desired--it is more versatile in different potential engagement scenarios and far superior compared to Triton Quickshok, Aguila IQ, Magsafe, Glaser, etc...

-- Although the Winchester service pistol loads (RA91P & RA401P) using the Nosler Partition Gold bullets are rumored to be discontinued, this Alan Corzine bullet design is too good not to be in production and I suspect another manufacturer will be savvy enough to start using them.

-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, etc…)

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The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

[This message has been edited by DocGKR (edited 12-29-2003).]

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Federal Premium Personal Defense Low Recoil Ammunition 9mm Luger 135 Grain Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 20




Got it? Good!

:lol:
 

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jrdwiz said:
Federal Premium Personal Defense Low Recoil Ammunition 9mm Luger 135 Grain Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 20
hmm, shooting at your breaker box^^ :lol: :lol:

I prefer hydrashoks also, very reliable, easy to control, and consistent.

I carry now a personal load I reloaded for my self using speer jhp, tested exp and I'm very happy with its penitration. Its a bit downloaded in my 40 s&w though
 

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JesterXD40 said:
jrdwiz said:
Federal Premium Personal Defense Low Recoil Ammunition 9mm Luger 135 Grain Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 20
hmm, shooting at your breaker box^^ :lol: :lol:

I prefer hydrashoks also, very reliable, easy to control, and consistent.

I carry now a personal load I reloaded for my self using speer jhp, tested exp and I'm very happy with its penitration. Its a bit downloaded in my 40 s&w though
It's probably not a good idea to use reloads for self defense ammo. Be prepared to be macerated by the attorneys if you ever have to use it.
 

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ElrodCod said:
It's probably not a good idea to use reloads for self defense ammo. Be prepared to be macerated by the attorneys if you ever have to use it.
Yeah, you'd be better off using Extreme Shock's Explosive Entry "Fang Face" Enhanced Penetration ammunition. :wink:

On a more serious note, what legal precedence is there suggesting increased potential for liability with handloaded/reloaded ammunition versus factory ammunition? Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, XTPs, XFBs, et al are all available either integrated into factory loads or available as reloading components. While there is the general perception that reloaded ammo is less reliable than factory ammo, that would tend to put the user at risk versus the BG.
 

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Also keep an eye on hornandy taps is getting very well reviews only problem is you haft to buy yourself a bottle of primer sealent because there not sealed, golden sabers seperate from jacket if use anything lower than 147 grain which is highest, as the link shows and what ive heard speer lawman has best quality SD ammo , which the taps is a mix of winchester cases and powder and hornandy bullets, but also something to keep in mind taps and remington golden sabers are easier and more abundant then speer for civilians, i got lucky living near a police supplier I got a cheap vest and can get speer lawman anytime they also have ranger but they only keep +p which I dislike even though ranger looks better on paper
 
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