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Discussion Starter #1
As of 14 July 2003 the XD40 Tactical was removed from the IPSC Production list. I have been in contact with Mr. Vince Pinto (IPSC Secretary) concering this matter. He sent me a great link that explains their decision. The basics of all the information is that 20 years ago Glock uses a partial DA trigger and partial SA so it partialy fit in and was excepted

The XD uses a partially single action (internally) and Safe Action (DA almost) but does not fit fully into the SA or DA trigger so it has been removed from the list *cough*

I have linked below an explanation of how the triggers are rated:

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/xddasa.htm

IDPA has applied a petition to have the XD series allowed into the Production or stock service section.

Glocks, XD's, Walthers, and Styer M series fall into this classification:

Quote:
DA-Like (DAL), or Bio-Mechanical DA (BMDA): This new definition is required in order to honestly appraise some of the newer pistols that cannot cleanly fit into the classic SA, DA/DAO, DA/SA trigger system definitions. Note: Nothing is sacred about these three classic standard trigger systems (definitions 1, 2, & 3). As pistols evolved, these pistol trigger definitions were simply created as needed in order to accurately describe the overall pistol functionality. But some of the newer style pistols operate ergonomically (biotechnology) as Double Action pistols, although internally they do not fit the classic DAO definition 3. Ayoob calls this new trigger category a bio-mechanical DA trigger since the trigger feels like a regular DAO Trigger system to the end user. I prefer the shorter definition of simply “DA-like” or “Striker Fired Action” if appropriate. Some pistols that fit into this category: Glock, Walther, Springfield XD, and the Steyr M series pistols, to name a few.

I found this to be a good read. I think the assembly will need to evaluate and maybe petition for the XD's to be allowed back into the Production of IPSC...or maybe have the Glock removed?

Apparently, Springfield Armonry has changed the title by which they categorize the XD. Something about a single action.(I checked Springfield's web site - they call it a "5.5 to 7.7 lbs. Ultra Safety Assurance (USATM) action trigger system"

Also Springfield had advertized the barrel length as 5", now they advertize it as 5.01"

IPSC took the gun off the list (along with a bunch of HK squeeze cockers) while they research the change.

I think that Glock even sued the Croatian comapny for patent infringment over the issue, case was settled out of court with the Croatian comapny paying Glock a royalty for the design.

And the really puzzling thing is that the HS2000 (the older 9mm XD) is still listed on a the list as allowed in production.

There are probably a lot of angry people now...a lot of people bought these pistols because they were on the list...

At the very least they (IPSC)could have posted their intentions and waited until the end of the season to make the change.

IPSC Canada has just Offically adopted a poilicy that the Production Division list as of Jan 1 of any year will remain current for the full season (year). This will allow Canadian Production shooters using the XD40 Tactical to keep using it for this year.

This works well for me as I am heading to the Canadian National IPSC Championships next week. I am competing in the Production Division and using a stock XD40 Tactical.

Cheers
Popurhedoff

[ July 23, 2003, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: Popurhedoff ]
 

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I don't think this will apply to USPSA for now. I read a letter from Voight concerning the IPSC changes in which he stated that USPSA has a waiver for another two years that exempts USPSA from IPSC rule changes for that period.
Bob.
 

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Your correct Bob, I am working on a Proposal for IPSC Canada to allow the XD40 Tactical back into the Production list for next year. Once one country adopts this policy then its just a matter of time before the world organization accepts it.
This would make it fair for all countries to be able to compete fairly.

Basicially the XD40 Tactical and the Glock series Pistols are neither a full single action or Double action. They are both 1/2 Double and 1/2 Single action pistols. But they are taking out the XD's and leaving the Glocks because 20 years ago because the ATF deemed it a DA because it was the closest action description available at the time.

Now Technology has moved ahead of the 3 classic action definitions...SA, DA, and DA/SA as described through these links:

SA/DA Discussion and Pistol Review

Springfield Armory's XD

Here is a simple test to perform with an XD and a Glock...I happen to own both types:

The XD40 Tactical is no longer accepted in the Production Division but the Glock series are allowed. I would like to prove that the XD40 Tactical and the Glock series pistols both cannot be classified into the “Classic” Single Action or Double Action pistols catagories but into a “Hybrid Action” to be accepted and adopted by the NEC.

Making sure the pistol is empty, magazine removed and the chamber proved clear, carry out the follow tests with a Springfield Armory XD40 Tactical:

XD40 Tactical Trigger/Action Test:

1. Rack the slide;
2. Pull the trigger, firing pin should strike forward;
3. Reset the trigger, and try to pull trigger again...firing pin does not advance or strike;
4. Re rack the slide;
5. Repeat steps 2-4. and firing pin should strike.

Making sure the pistol is empty, magazine removed and the chamber proved clear, carry out the follow tests with a Glock 17:

Glock 17 Trigger /Action Test:

1. Rack the slide;
2. Pull the trigger, firing pin should strike forward;
3. Reset the trigger, and try to pull trigger again...firing pin does not advance or strike;
4. Re rack the slide;
5. Repeat steps 2-4. and firing pin should strike.

True Double actions have the ability to manually reset the hammer/striker through the longer pull of the trigger. If you perform the same tests on an other double action pistols as follows:

Making sure the pistol is empty, magazine removed and the chamber proved clear, carry out the follow tests with a Double Action or Double /Single Action semi automatic pictol:

1. Cock hammer to the rear...trigger should move to rear slightly;
2. Pull trigger, hammer should drop striking the firing pin;
3. Reset the trigger, and try to pull trigger again, trigger should be longer and pull through causing hammer to rear then releasing to strike the firing pin;
4. Repeat step 3, hammer should rise and fall everytime.

This is how a true double action works. The striker/hammer reset and fall is not dependent on the action of the slide to the rear in Double Action mode.

With both the XD's and the Glock's the only thing that resets the firing pin/striker is the action of the slide to the rear by either manually racking or the cycling of the slide due to firing. Neither pistol has the ability to reset the firing pin by manually pulling the trigger... in essance both are single action to a degree.

Summary: Neither the Glock nor XD's fall directly into the trigger classification of Single Action or Double Action but rather into a new trigger group category. If the XD40 Tactical is removed from the Production list because of its Trigger group/action caragory then so should the Glock series of Pistols as proved above.

Springfield Armory Barrel length discussion:

Last year when the Springfield Armory XD40 Tactical came onto the market it was advertized with a 5” barrel. This year they are now advertizing the barrel length of 5.01” If the barrel length is indeed over 5 inches than according to the 14th Edition IPSC rule book it is not allowed.

I decided to disassemble my XD40 Tactical and carry out an actual dimension check. I used a Digital Vernier caliper with a new battery and the Vernier Caliper zero’d.

Making sure the pistol is empty, magazine removed and the chamber proved clear, disassemble the XD40 Tactical and measure from the following points:

1. Total barrel + chamber + feed ramp and locking lug assembly length: = 4.997 inches
(Measured from muzzle of barrel to furthest rear of barrel assembly) http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/pf263f291b1339679368472ea0592042e/fb986e 41.jpg

2. Total barrel + chamber assembly length: = 4.850 inches
(Measured from muzzle of barrel to furthest rear of chamber) http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p138bd5b33d9e3ef749ac0ad434f3b0f5/fb986e 3a.jpg

3. Total barrel length only: = 4.125 inches
(Measured from muzzle of barrel to furthest rear of chamber and subtract chamber
Length using a Vernier Depth guage 4.850” – 0.725” = 4.125”)

This proves that my XD40 Tactical is well below the 5 inch maximum and therefore should still be allowed in the Production Division. I submitt that the NEC carry out these detailed test for themselves.

Conclusion:

With the above information and tests carried out for the XD40 Tactical and Glock trigger tests and the physical test on XD40 Tactical barrels assemblies that the XD40 Tactical be reintroduced in the Production List for the 2004 Season and beyond.

If the XD40 Tactical pistol is not reintroduced or concessions made to it being allowed back into the Production List, then I would formally wish to submit another proposal to have the Glock Series pistols removed from the Production list. For the same reason the XD40 Tactical was removed, the Glock series pistols should be removed…being a hybrid DS/SA trigger action…Neither the XD40 Tactical nor the Glock series pistols fall cleanly into either category. Neither have Single Action or Double Action type triggers. The Glock actually has an advantage of a shorter reset within its trigger/action .

The NEC need s to be proactive and research and then formally adopt the DA-Like (DAL), or Bio-Mechanical DA (BMDA) category for these style pistols within the Production Division. Reguardless of which trigger action the defining factors should be DA or DA like or BMDA as the 14th Edition rulebook clearly states at least a 5-lb trigger pull. Let’s be realistic about this…all trigger actions that are a miminum of 5-lb pull are…5-lb triggers.

Cheers
Popurhedoff

[ July 25, 2003, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: Popurhedoff ]
 

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For USPSA you can shoot it in Production.
www.USPSA.org
But the list for Production Division guns in not working currently.
 

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You should have seen what response you get if you try to tell the idpa cronies that the XD should be allowed in SSP. WOW some of those guys get upset if you challenge their ruling.
 
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