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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I appreciate everyone's patience with my questions as I am learning so much!

The 10mm XDM is not harsh even with heavy full power loads.
The cutout on the 5.25" is not unique in the hand gun world, look at the Beretta 92 our military uses.
Many outdoors people in brown bear country are trading their heavy revolvers for 10mm pistols, there is a definite pattern. No cocking or heavy double action trigger pull results in better accuracy in emergencies.
Lots of government agencies issue 10mm pistols in big bear territory. The Greenland Sirius Patrol uses 10mm as backup to their rifles for protection from musk ox and polar bears.
Thanks for posting this as I never knew about the Beretta 92's open slide design. When I look at the XD-M 5.25" all I thought was the dirt, snow, and other debris could get in there and interfere with the function of the slide. It appears the XD-M 5.25" has a cavity in the open slide area where debris could accumulate. Say if it was dropped in mud or snow, could anything accumulate and possibly interfere with the slide function?

It appears there is no cavity in the Beretta 92 as compared with the XD-M 10mm 5.25". Am I seeing this correctly? If there is a cavity in the 5.25" to accumulate debris, the consensus is it is NOT a problem?

Now for some opinion. Tritium sights are over rated, if you need lit up sights can you see the target? I have tritium sights on some guns and IMO lasers and lights are more effective IMO. YMMV.
I have a Streamlight TLR-8 G on my XDM 5.25" 10mm. A very nice combo.
Very good recommendation of the Streamlight TLR-8 G! I'm embarrassed I didn't think about it! I use Tritium Speed Sites and really wasn't thinking of a light to attach to the new pistol as I'm used to carrying a flashlight. I see the TLR-8 G comes with a side or rear switch. The side switch looks like a better option as I have read some people have had an AD when using a rear switch.

I have been searching for chest holster solutions both in the 4.5" and 5.25" models that allow room for a Streamlight TLR-8 G. Does anyone have a recommendation?

I'm still debating between the 4.5" and 5.25 " as well. I wish I had an LGS that had both to physically handle. I know I said earlier the sole purpose was for protection against black bears, but after reading about individuals posting of CC the 4.5" for EDC, it has me reconsidering of possibly replacing my XDSC .40 EDC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Yes Gunsprings is Wolff. I know of a few people that had installed PRP guide rods but it seems they were having breakage problems. Don’t know if the got that resolved or not. I just used my stock tube. Others have filled the stock tube with lead for more weight too.
Thanks! I didn't realize that about Gunsprings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I have the XDM10 5.25" and have shot the Gluck20 plenty. They are very similar and fill the same role for me, but I never liked the Gluck grip angle, sproingy trigger and sights...and I so dislike like having to pull the trigger for take down. I almost got the G20, but I'm so glad the XDM10 came along just in time. Way better trigger, awesome sights and it points very well for me, OOB. I have a 5.11 chest pack that works well for field carry. It's weight does not detract much from follow up shots, and although I've tried the various recoil spring weights and the dense/heavy tungsten guide rod, I could not discern any felt recoil difference. YMMV
I've been looking at the 5.11 chest pack that you mentioned. I really been thinking of a chest holster that will allow me to quickly draw. I can't tell if that is the case with the 5.11 chest pack. What are your thoughts?
 

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So... I've always liked the 10mm. I've always wanted a woods gun... So I got a 44 mag. It was sweet, a boat anchor. Very tame. Hot 44 mag is most definitely not an all day fun but gun. It is fantastic bear repellant.

Then I sold it... For the sole reason I don't need bear repellent. I have a double stack 10mm. I made it heavier with a steel grip. It's a boat anchor. It shoots fantastic. Weight is a good thing. 17 rounds of hot 357 mag is a good thing. It will take care of anything I will run into normally.

Here is the part you won't like... If you are carrying a gun strictly for bear, because running into a bear is a very real possibility... I sure as heck would not be carrying 10mm...it would be 41/44 mag. Follow up shots... You won't get a follow up shot, you will be lucky if you get one off... Better be a good one. Do you have any idea how fast bear are.... 17 rounds won't matter.

Now, if like me, you just want a back woods firearm for maybe a mountain lion or upright critters, 10mm is fantastic. 15 rounds back country is even better. If you need a bear gun, get a bear gun.
 

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Gunfighters Inc has a nice chest rig with a light bearing option. They build them for the 4.5" XDM and will start making them again for the 5.25". I sent them another email last night encouraging them to have mercy on us 5.25" guys.
Black Point Tactical has one that looks okay.
The 5.11 chest pack lacks critical speed of access and could hinder ventilation more than a chest holster, IMO.
 
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And not to be dramatic... And it's not like I have experience fighting bear... Another nod to the revolver is it won't come out of battery if it is pressed against a bear. What if it knocks you down, on top of you nawing on your head... You won't have to worry about a barrel press or slide cycle...

Which is another good reason for a chest rig. I love mine. I didn't want snags, but I also like it on my chest... Which is another really good reminder... A good hunting knife should always be within reach....

.... And maybe a good rape whistle too...
 
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The knife. Good subject. There is a video of a professional African hunter going into the bush. He dropped (shot) a wounded mature male lion that died in his lap. (goddamn!) He was carrying a large sheath knife on his belt in the middle of his back where either hand could access it. Damn good idea.
I had a very close encounter with a mountain lion after which I bought a .44 Mag. I wanted a .44 Mag at the time so that is what I got. Knowing what I know now a 1911 45 ACP etc. would have been a better choice. I have given the situation a lot of thought and shooting a big cat off your back is fraught with bad outcomes.
The pressed against something so a semi auto won't work argument is the product of gun writers imaginations that have to produce words for a living. I call BS.
 
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Awareness of your surroundings is also paramount. I know a gal that’s a fishing guide in Alaska. She carries a can of bear spray, a 44 and a shotgun. She said she’s always on the lookout, and if a bear wants your fishing spot you gracefully give it to them. Of course their dealing with big brownies up there. If you browse through the funny gif section on this site there’s one where a bear is sniffing a guy’s feet sticking out of a tent. When the the guy wakes up just look how fast that bear gets out of there. It may be sped up a bit but it doesn’t take long for it to disappear. We are pretty darn weak compared to animals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 · (Edited)
Have you ever heard of the saying "ignorance is bliss"? Meaning, you do not know what you do not know.....if you do not really know about something, you do worry about it. Well, that saying describes me and my knowledge about black bears.....until everything started to "click" today.

@Cuda66 and @Powerman have made some good points in their posts! I'm probably considered to be the exception to the general rules of hiking in the wilderness since my odds of encountering a sow with her cub(s) or other black bears are very high. After all, they are coming into my yard weekly from now and into October. I have a home in CO. Maybe if I put a rail fencing up around the property, that might help. I happen to live on a corner lot and maybe they are taking a shortcut through my yard past my sliding glass door. As mentioned before, a neighbor has some type of apple trees that may be drawing them in....who knows.

From various readings, it sounds like the black bears have found a food source in the area and are not scared of people living in the area. So the chances of an encounter when we take our dogs out at night are quite high. With that said, I have been reading A LOT this past 24 hours and now realize that black bears can be VERY aggressive.

Quickly summing up the various articles I read, most people out hiking or in the wilderness are not observant of their surroundings due to them looking down when they are hiking/walking. This actually isn't surprising since most people leaving shopping centers/stores behave the same. Individuals hiking should stop frequently and look around the area.

Another couple of facts was most bears come up to within 30 feet from you to check you out and decide whether to charge, bluff charge, or retreat. Most bear spray can go 30 feet BUT may be limited to much shorter distances due to wind and weather conditions. Articles tend to agree the average distance the bear was prior to attacking before the hiker noticed the bear was only 14 feet! Also, articles say the bear can cover 44 feet in a second! Articles also say when it comes to black bears, you should put up a fight and NEVER play dead (as one might due in a grizzly attack) since the black bear will not stop the attack.

So, @Cuda66 and @Powerman were correct in posting/alluding to that one would be better off with a higher caliber round and power since you probably would only get off one shot at best with that distance. I started this thread saying the main purpose was for bear protection and gradually was swaying toward possible everyday carrying. I lost focus for a while and I sure do appreciate all the great suggestions people have posted.

As can be seen partly in my bear videos, I have trees and shrubs in the area that could easily hide a bear. Perhaps I or the dogs would hear them walking, perhaps not. However, looking at where we walk our dogs, even in the "safest open area", a bear encounter will more likely be less than 30 feet. I do plan on installing more cameras in other areas surrounding my home.

With that said, I am going to try and rent a .44 to see if I can handle the recoil. If I could, I would try and rent a .41, but I seriously doubt ranges have any. I've read that many ranges will not allow individuals to shoot .44 magnums. Hopefully, my local gun ranges can accommodate. Below are the loads that are made for the .44 and .41. Feel free to comment on any experiences you have with any of these loads.

Thanks again for all the posts!!!

ETA: As I was typing this post, two black bears came into my yard. You can see them in the distance go to my neighbor and then a few seconds later you hear a loud crash.....Two black bears 30 minutes ago video
 

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The knife. Good subject. There is a video of a professional African hunter going into the bush. He dropped (shot) a wounded mature male lion that died in his lap. (goddamn!) He was carrying a large sheath knife on his belt in the middle of his back where either hand could access it. Damn good idea.
I had a very close encounter with a mountain lion after which I bought a .44 Mag. I wanted a .44 Mag at the time so that is what I got. Knowing what I know now a 1911 45 ACP etc. would have been a better choice. I have given the situation a lot of thought and shooting a big cat off your back is fraught with bad outcomes.
The pressed against something so a semi auto won't work argument is the product of gun writers imaginations that have to produce words for a living. I call BS.
Well, same as the auto/revolver reliability argument, or any other hypothetical argument.... But the pressing an auto out of battery isn't BS. Might be unlikely... You might not ever actually press a barrel... Cause why... But takes very little to unlock a barrel. Or even if something bizarre, too close, slide does not fully cycle... As unlikely as it may be, and I'm not saying autos are not reliable... But the possibility with revolvers does not exist.

Now the other biggest issue... There is no comparable cartridge to 44 mag in an auto. There is a reason very few autos are chambered for big stuff. There is no capacity advantage for one because big cartridges are single stack. So I would pick a 44 over an auto for that reason alone... But it also happens to be a very reliable choice.
 

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Have you ever heard of the saying "ignorance is bliss"? Meaning, you do not know what you do not know.....if you do not really know about something, you do worry about it. Well, that saying describes me and my knowledge about black bears.....until everything started to "click" today.

@Cuda66 and @Powerman have made some good points in their posts! I'm probably considered to be the exception to the general rules of hiking in the wilderness since my odds of encountering a sow with her cub(s) or other black bears are very high. After all, they are coming into my yard weekly from now and into October. I have a home in CO. Maybe if I put a rail fencing up around the property, that might help. I happen to live on a corner lot and maybe they are taking a shortcut through my yard past my sliding glass door. As mentioned before, a neighbor has some type of apple trees that may be drawing them in....who knows.

From various readings, it sounds like the black bears have found a food source in the area and are not scared of people living in the area. So the chances of an encounter when we take our dogs out at night are quite high. With that said, I have been reading A LOT this past 24 hours and now realize that black bears can be VERY aggressive. This article is just many that gave similar information yellowstone-bear types-spray.

Quickly summing up the various articles I read, most people out hiking or in the wilderness are not observant of their surroundings due to them looking down when they are hiking/walking. This actually isn't surprising since most people leaving shopping centers/stores behave the same. Individuals hiking should stop frequently and look around the area.

Another couple of facts was most bears come up to within 30 feet from you to check you out and decide whether to charge, bluff charge, or retreat. Most bear spray can go 30 feet BUT may be limited to much shorter distances to wind and weather conditions. Articles tend to agree the average distance the bear was prior to attacking before the hiker noticed the bear was only 14 feet! Also, articles say the bear can cover 44 feet in a second! Articles also say when it comes to black bears, you should put up a fight and NEVER play dead (as one might due in a grizzly attack) since the black bear will not stop the attack.

So, @Cuda66 and @Powerman were correct in posting/alluding to that one would be better off with a higher caliber round and power since you probably would only get off one shot at best with that distance. I started this thread saying the main purpose was for bear protection and gradually was swaying toward possible everyday carrying. I lost focus for a while and I sure do appreciate all the great suggestions people have posted.

As can be seen partly in my bear videos, I have trees and shrubs in the area that could easily hide a bear. Perhaps I or the dogs would hear them walking, perhaps not. However, looking at where we walk our dogs, even in the "safest open area", a bear encounter will more likely be less than 30 feet. I do plan on installing more cameras in other areas surrounding my home.

With that said, I am going to try and rent a .44 to see if I can handle the recoil. If I could, I would try and rent a .41, but I seriously doubt ranges have any. I've read that many ranges will not allow individuals to shoot .44 magnums. Hopefully, my local gun ranges can accommodate. Below are the loads that are made for the .44 and .41. Feel free to comment on any experiences you have with any of these loads.


DANGEROUS GAME HEAVY 44 MAG 265 gr. Mono-Metal 1,425 fps / ME 1,195 ft lbs.
Heavy .44 Magnum Ammo - 270 gr. J.F.N. 1,450 fps/M.E. 1,260 ft. lbs.
Heavy .44 Magnum Ammo - 300 gr. J.F.N. 1,300 fps/M.E. 1,126 ft. lbs.


HEAVY .41 MAGNUM OUTDOORSMAN - 230 gr. Keith 1,450 fps/M.E. 1,074 ft. lbs.
HEAVY .41 MAGNUM OUTDOORSMAN - 265 gr. L.W.N. 1,350 fps/M.E. 1,072 ft. lbs.


Thanks again for all the posts!!!

ETA: As I was typing this post, two black bears came into my yard. You can see them in the distance go to my neighbor and then a few seconds later you hear a loud crash.....Two black bears 30 minutes ago video
Some good considerations... So, in my quest for hand cannons... Bigger is always better right? Eh... I have my limits come to find out. 44 mag is indeed a popular reasonable hand cannon... But ya, it's a hand cannon. High round counts are not real fun. I had a S&W 627 4" with a compensated barrel. Hot 44 is a hand full with the nicest hogue grip... But don't let that scare you... this isn't for high round count gun fight.

For me.... 44 special is like 45 auto... Super easy to shoot and train. You certainly know 44mag is more on the first cylinder... But the first cylinder is not the problem, it's the 10th. I found 44 special to be a real pleasure. Mild 44 mag is fun, hot 44 mag, hand cannon.

Hornady XTP is a proven performer with excellent penetration. I'm talking hunting. They have 240 grain at 1350 and that was my go to. Underwood even makes 300gr XTP at 1200, and they make hard cast loads too. Buffalo bore is fine too. Cuda will tell you 180gr remington... I forget... 1600 fps, but darn near thermonuclear. I didn't shoot a lot of those.

I'm not the most experienced with 44. Again, proven performer the world over on game. The biggest I would consider usable. Don't sweat the power, the first few shots are not the problem, it's the many. Practicing with 44spl is a real pleasure. If you find it's not your cup of tea, the next best would be your first choice... Hot 10mm 255gr hard cast... But it's not 44 mag 250 hard cast.

Just yappin... There was some show on bears... Dude had like film/video... Old. He was across a meadow, watching a grizzly in the treeline on the other side. Up a hill, a couple hundred yards... The bear was watching deer in the meadow. The bear takes off... The camera man wasn't zoomed in, had the bear with ground, and distance... You saw the distance the bear covered... The deer was 100-150 yards away.... The bear caught a deer open ground. It never had a chance. All the deer scattered when it charged, The unlucky one took off... Done. Dead.

Without that video, showing ground covered, you could never convince me something so big is so fast. Unbelievable. I'm no where close as fast as a deer.
 
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Some good considerations... So, in my quest for hand cannons... Bigger is always better right? Eh... I have my limits come to find out. 44 mag is indeed a popular reasonable hand cannon... But ya, it's a hand cannon. High round counts are not real fun. I had a S&W 627 4" with a compensated barrel. Hot 44 is a hand full with the nicest hogue grip... But don't let that scare you... this isn't for high round count gun fight.

For me.... 44 special is like 45 auto... Super easy to shoot and train. You certainly know 44mag is more on the first cylinder... But the first cylinder is not the problem, it's the 10th. I found 44 special to be a real pleasure. Mild 44 mag is fun, hot 44 mag, hand cannon.

Hornady XTP is a proven performer with excellent penetration. I'm talking hunting. They have 240 grain at 1350 and that was my go to. Underwood even makes 300gr XTP at 1200, and they make hard cast loads too. Buffalo bore is fine too. Cuda will tell you 180gr remington... I forget... 1600 fps, but darn near thermonuclear. I didn't shoot a lot of those.

I'm not the most experienced with 44. Again, proven performer the world over on game. The biggest I would consider usable. Don't sweat the power, the first few shots are not the problem, it's the many. Practicing with 44spl is a real pleasure. If you find it's not your cup of tea, the next best would be your first choice... Hot 10mm 255gr hard cast... But it's not 44 mag 250 hard cast.

Just yappin... There was some show on bears... Dude had like film/video... Old. He was across a meadow, watching a grizzly in the treeline on the other side. Up a hill, a couple hundred yards... The bear was watching deer in the meadow. The bear takes off... The camera man wasn't zoomed in, had the bear with ground, and distance... You saw the distance the bear covered... The deer was 100-150 yards away.... The bear caught a deer open ground. It never had a chance. All the deer scattered when it charged, The unlucky one took off... Done. Dead.

Without that video, showing ground covered, could you ever convince me something so big is so fast. Unbelievable. I'm no where close as fast as a deer.
When did they start making the 627 in .44?

I thought those were .357.

I might need a new decoder ring for their model numbers.
 

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When did they start making the 627 in .44?

I thought those were .357.

I might need a new decoder ring for their model numbers.
They didn't. I always get mixed up. 629, but I thought the v-comp was something different... Nope. 629 v-comp.
 
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
...Some good considerations... So, in my quest for hand cannons... Bigger is always better right? Eh... I have my limits come to find out. 44 mag is indeed a popular reasonable hand cannon... But ya, it's a hand cannon. High round counts are not real fun. I had a S&W 627 4" with a compensated barrel. Hot 44 is a hand full with the nicest hogue grip... But don't let that scare you... this isn't for high round count gun fight.

For me.... 44 special is like 45 auto... Super easy to shoot and train. You certainly know 44mag is more on the first cylinder... But the first cylinder is not the problem, it's the 10th. I found 44 special to be a real pleasure. Mild 44 mag is fun, hot 44 mag, hand cannon.

Hornady XTP is a proven performer with excellent penetration. I'm talking hunting. They have 240 grain at 1350 and that was my go to. Underwood even makes 300gr XTP at 1200, and they make hard cast loads too. Buffalo bore is fine too. Cuda will tell you 180gr remington... I forget... 1600 fps, but darn near thermonuclear. I didn't shoot a lot of those.

I'm not the most experienced with 44. Again, proven performer the world over on game. The biggest I would consider usable. Don't sweat the power, the first few shots are not the problem, it's the many. Practicing with 44spl is a real pleasure. If you find it's not your cup of tea, the next best would be your first choice... Hot 10mm 255gr hard cast... But it's not 44 mag 250 hard cast.

Just yappin... There was some show on bears... Dude had like film/video... Old. He was across a meadow, watching a grizzly in the treeline on the other side. Up a hill, a couple hundred yards... The bear was watching deer in the meadow. The bear takes off... The camera man wasn't zoomed in, had the bear with ground, and distance... You saw the distance the bear covered... The deer was 100-150 yards away.... The bear caught a deer open ground. It never had a chance. All the deer scattered when it charged, The unlucky one took off... Done. Dead.

Without that video, showing ground covered, could you ever convince me something so big is so fast. Unbelievable. I'm no where close as fast as a deer.
I just went to YouTube and entered "bear charging deer" and couldn't believe all the videos....amazing. I could easily see a bear attacking the deer that are in my yard daily.

Practicing with .44 specials and slipping in a Buffalo Bore round now and then might do the trick. I've called a few ranges in the Denver, CO area and while they have a .44 rental, they do not have the ammo. I'll keep trying. I did find a place in Tempe, AZ I visit every so often, and they have a S&W 629 and ammo. So, perhaps next week I will take a trip there...

BTW, I noticed my last post above left out a couple of paragraphs. I've edited it, but are posts limited to how many characters can be typed?
 

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I just went to YouTube and entered "bear charging deer" and couldn't believe all the videos....amazing. I could easily see a bear attacking the deer that are in my yard daily.

Practicing with .44 specials and slipping in a Buffalo Bore round now and then might do the trick. I've called a few ranges in the Denver, CO area and while they have a .44 rental, they do not have the ammo. I'll keep trying. I did find a place in Tempe, AZ I visit every so often, and they have a S&W 629 and ammo. So, perhaps next week I will take a trip there...

BTW, I noticed my last post above left out a couple of paragraphs. I've edited it, but are posts limited to how many characters can be typed?
No, my posts are way too long... There are no limits
 
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I just went to YouTube and entered "bear charging deer" and couldn't believe all the videos....amazing. I could easily see a bear attacking the deer that are in my yard daily.

Practicing with .44 specials and slipping in a Buffalo Bore round now and then might do the trick. I've called a few ranges in the Denver, CO area and while they have a .44 rental, they do not have the ammo. I'll keep trying. I did find a place in Tempe, AZ I visit every so often, and they have a S&W 629 and ammo. So, perhaps next week I will take a trip there...

BTW, I noticed my last post above left out a couple of paragraphs. I've edited it, but are posts limited to how many characters can be typed?
If you're using Tapatalk depending on what version/update number, there are character limits.

The forum itself I don't believe has limits.
 

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I’ve got some 320 LFN hardcast @ 1400 that might do the job. ;)
That looks like a problem there around your house. Food and water, two biggest attractants and if someone has fruit trees the party’s on. I think many of the times that they get scared away by a gunshot is mostly by the noise. But a constant repetition of that and soon it doesn’t bother them. Some people have used rubber buckshot and that seems effective because of the bang and the sting. After a while just the sight of a human or opening of the door scares them off, sometimes. You need a 55 gallon drum full of Twinkies and doughnuts about 2 miles away from your home. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I’ve got some 320 LFN hardcast @ 1400 that might do the job. ;)
That looks like a problem there around your house. Food and water, two biggest attractants and if someone has fruit trees the party’s on. I think many of the times that they get scared away by a gunshot is mostly by the noise. But a constant repetition of that and soon it doesn’t bother them. Some people have used rubber buckshot and that seems effective because of the bang and the sting. After a while just the sight of a human or opening of the door scares them off, sometimes. You need a 55 gallon drum full of Twinkies and doughnuts about 2 miles away from your home. :D
We have an "open space" area on the side of our house ( a chute type design about 35-40 yards wide and weaves probably a mile or so throughout the neighborhood). Early this morning they were coming from that direction. My wife believes the neighbor on the other side of that open space has fruit trees and raspberry bushes. Thus, two neighbors have some sort of fruit-bearing trees/bushes. I would think it is too early in the season for them to be a food source.

I wonder if bears are deterred by rail fencing? So, rather than climbing over a 4' tall section, they would just walk around it?

ETA: Maybe install an electric fence hidden within the interior of the rail fencing (so as neighbors don't complain)?
 
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