Springfield XD Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been to 2 IDPA matches and the club running the match put me in SSP I have only been shooting a few months so I am at the mercy of the club putting on the match I 've been told on another post that it is in ESP because it is single action but I just downloaded the IDPA rulebook and it Say's if a pistol is (safe action such as glock) it Is in SSP I thought Springfield's (USA ultra safety assurance trigger system) was essentially the same thing someone clear this up for me!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,970 Posts
From the writings of Ken Hackathorn on this very issue...

A number of IDPA members have questioned why the Springfield Armory XD pistol is not allowed in SSP Division. Some folks who do not understand small arms design have stated that the XD is the same as a Glock. When it comes to the design of the trigger action and how it relates to IDPA they are wrong. IDPA criteria for SSP is that the trigger system be Double Action…..and for IDPA purposes the definition of DA trigger is that the trigger perform TWO actions. ONE, it cocks or retracts the hammer/striker, and TWO it releases the hammer/striker. In a Glock pistol, the striker is 2/3 retracted by the cycling action of the pistol. However, when you pull the trigger on the Glock, the trigger does retract the striker the final 1/3 of its movement and then releases the striker via the connector to allow the pistol to fire. This means the Glock trigger technique does both pull the striker back and release it...aka Double Action by IDPA definition. The XD pistol has the striker fully retracted in the cycling of the action. Note that little cocking indicator sticking out of the back of the XD slide (rear of the striker). All that the XD trigger does is release the striker….thus it is a single action pistol. The XD or HS2000 as it was first known as in Europe was marketed there as a single action. It was first brought into the USA by Springfield Armory as a single action. It is single action in IDPA and thus will be a ESP division handgun until they make a .45 ACP version. One clueless individual informed me that since the XD trigger also moves the trigger activated firing pin block it does two things thus we should call the XD a DA…Colts' Series 80 M1911 pistols do the same thing and we sure as hell aren't going to call them DA….so get over it. The XD is a fine pistol, I have one and really like it. But, it's a ESP pistol in IDPA…..and a darn fine one at that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
I shot in my first IDPA match last week. I shot my XD-40SC in ESP class. I'm informed that the glock is in SSP because it cocks the striker as the trigger is pulled (DA). The XD is in ESP because they consider it SA. The striker is fully cocked upon the slide returning to battery and the trigger only releases the striker.

Personally I think it's a crock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks it will be interesting at my next match as I said it is a club level event and I had a great time at the previous 2 so I don't care what class I'm in Thanks again
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,751 Posts
RangeRat said:
Thanks it will be interesting at my next match as I said it is a club level event and I had a great time at the previous 2 so I don't care what class I'm in Thanks again
Thats what its all about :D . The rule book is on line at the IDPA web site. Its available in several formats. Click on "IDPA" in my signature block, the click on the rule book bullet when you get there.
Happy shooting!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
181 Posts
GarySTL said:
Guess I need to type faster!
But Scott cheated by cut and pasting. You did it the honest way. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,167 Posts
IDPA can bitch and moan all that they want, but the striker does move back when fired, its less than 1/32" of an inch but it does move. Oh well, there's no argueing with IDPA.

We're lucky that its legal for USPSA Production, thankfully for our Area 5 director thrown a fit at a board of directors meeting after they first said it was legal and then wanted to prohibit it after people had already bought gear. Yeah that'd be fun, shooting limited with a 9mm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
R Dub said:
RangeRat said:
Thanks it will be interesting at my next match as I said it is a club level event and I had a great time at the previous 2 so I don't care what class I'm in Thanks again
Thats what its all about :D . The rule book is on line at the IDPA web site. Its available in several formats. Click on "IDPA" in my signature block, the click on the rule book bullet when you get there.
Happy shooting!
Thanks I went to the IDPA website and downloaded the rule book so I will be more knowledgeable at the next Mach sure wish I was competing head to head with Glocks though
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
So would this give the shooter of the XD an advantage or disadvantage in shooting SSP over a glock?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,167 Posts
Waldo said:
So would this give the shooter of the XD an advantage or disadvantage in shooting SSP over a glock?
Given the long DA pull of a XD versus a Glock, nope. If you consider a trigger job on the XD or even the drop-in components available for a Glock, nope.

Its just a technicality reality from my point of view. SSP should be just changed to GSP (Glock Service Pistol) since like 80%+ of the guns used in it are Glocks.

In all honesty, a XD could compete and win in any division (other than CDP) given the available features. Since IDPA isn't weighted like USPSA is in speed being a bit more important than accuracy, the XD can win if you do your part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,260 Posts
ampleworks said:
the drop-in components available for a Glock
While the various associations have their various rules, it makes one wonder whether some of the modified Glocks (with some having trigger pulls in the 2-pound class) are really pulling the striker back with the trigger or how much different the trigger mechanism is on a Glock 18 versus the rest of the Glock family.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
This doesn't really add anything, but this is the response I got from IDPA after 4 months:

Sir,

The XD is considered an ESP gun only.

The Springfield XD seems to be very similar to the Glock but there are
some major differences. When you pull the trigger on a Glock, you are
in fact, cocking the striker about halfway. When you pull the trigger
on the XD, you aren't cocking the striker at all. Because of that, the
ATF considers this pistol to be a single action pistol. When the XD
first came out, Springfield called it a single action striker fired
pistol.

Because this pistol is considered a single action, it cannot be used for
Stock Service Pistol Division. It can only be used in Enhanced Service
Pistol Division. Glocks are classed with double action pistols because
of the fact that the trigger pull finishes cocking the striker.

Sincerely,
Sandra Tumbleson
IDPA Staff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
So would this give the shooter of the XD an advantage or disadvantage in shooting SSP over a glock?
The only disadvantage of the XD in ESP is that you have to shoot approx 10-20 seconds better than in SSP to classify for the same class. As an example: When classifying in ESP to shoot expert you must shoot 108.57 or better, if SSP you must shoot 120.00 or better etc. . I shoot in sanctioned and non sanctioned IDPA matches and in some I can only shoot it in ESP in others I can shoot it in both ESP and SSP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Hopefully the IDPA will reconsider this and stop splitting hairs the XD is a direct competitor for sales with the glock they should be in the same class based on that alone
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
471 Posts
What upsets me is that their "Double action" definition isn't consistant.

Here is an example. The glock has to move the striker back and then release it so "two actions". It is partially cocked.

Why then, can I not use my H&K from a half cocked position? I must use it from a full hammer down position. I see no difference in going off half-cocked with a glock vs going off half cocked with an H&K.

FWIW I think the most competative SSP is a G34.

I got some funny looks last time at IDPA. I decided to compete with what I carry alot. A G20 with regular power HPs. I said regular power not full (or nuclear) power loads. The full power stuff just beats the hell outta the pistol. I do shoot it though, just not in IDPA.

Look at a post I made. The 10mm had such a muzzle blast, I blew the center out of a target. That was fun :)

I think a G34 is in my future though.

-Dana
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
DanaT said:
I think a G34 is in my future though.

-Dana
I to think a G34 is in my future also there was allot of down time at the IDPA matches I went to and if they although it I would like to shoot in 2 divisions plus I am not a hard core loyalist a G34 and XD tactical would be a cool combo and shooting the Glock GSSF events sound like a good time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
285 Posts
Makes me glad I shoot USPSA where my XD is Production legal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
In USPSA Production the XD competes in the same division as the Glock.
In TSA the XD competes in the same division as the Glock.
In IDPA the XD competes in the toughest division available, against high dollar STI guns. This is the reason you never see an XD in the winners circle at the IDPA Nationals.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top