[Mark S.]

IDPA is considering further changes to the new rulebook. Many of us who use XD9 or XD40 pistols in IDPA competition, feel that we are unfairly disadvantaged by having to shoot in the ESP division rather than the SSP division.

I sent the following email to IDPA, and I would encourage other IDPA members who use XD pistols to send similar messages:

Dear IDPA Board,

I use two guns in IDPA competitions. One is a full-size .45 caliber Kimber 1911. The other is a stock XD-9 service model. I always have found it strange that Glock pistols are classified in the Stock Service Pistol division, while XD pistols must compete in the Enhanced Service Pistol division.

From a practical, rather than a technical point of view, there is very little difference in behavior between the Glock and XD pistols. Technically, the XD is a single action pistol because the striker is fully reset by the recoil, while in the Glock the striker is 2/3 reset by recoil and 1/3 by trigger pull. But, AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT POINT, both the Glock and the XD are SAFE ACTION pistols (both have trigger safeties of similar design) and because of this the trigger pull for both Glock and XD require comparable force. The minimum trigger pull force for an XD is 5.5 lbs and typically more like 6 or or 6.5 lbs.

This is substantially higher than the the trigger pull force required for the true single action pistols normally used in the ESP division.

Right now the classification scores for ESP are substantially more difficult to meet than those for SSP. In my view this seriously disadvantages XD shooters.

I see three possible remedies. (1) The fairest, in my view, would be to have a separate division for all safe action pistols (Glock and XD) since they behave similarly in practice. (2) Move Glocks to ESP, since they are closer to XD's than other SSP's. Or, (3) adjust the classification scores for ESP to account for XD's.

I think that there would be an overall benefit from making such revisions. The XD is one of the most affordable, quality carry pistols. I think that more folks would be attracted to IDPA if they felt that they could compete on a more equal footing with their XD pistols.

Sincerely,

Dr. Mark H. Shapiro

 

[USN RM3]

I agree and I will......

 

[Street Dog]

Would not the best, easiest, and simple way of righting this wrong, be to move the XD to stock service division? It is truly a service pistol, carried by a growing number of police depts. How many other guns in the enhanced division can say that. As a side note, I attended the IDPA founders conference, and have been active from the start of the organization, though I have not always agreed with the changes.

 

[skygun9]

Mark,
I've been shooting my pistol in ESP for about a year now and see no significant drawback to being grouped there. I consistantly beat other shooters with "true" ESP pistols and see no reason to change the rules.
I guess if I was getting beaten regularly I'd jump on the band wagon but since I'm not, I cannot support your view.

Why don't you come down to the IDPA match we shoot once a month at the Escondido Rod & Gun Club and see for yourself.

Skygun9 out........

 

[Gary G23]

skygun9,
Shoot the Nationals with your XD sometime and then report back to us on how well you did against the "true" ESP pistols.

 

[Verm]

It's not a question of how "you" do in ESP on local levels, it's a question of why is the XD in ESP instead of SSP it Glocks are allowed in SSP.

 

[Frenchy]

It's not a question of how "you" do in ESP on local levels, it's a question of why is the XD in ESP instead of SSP it Glocks are allowed in SSP.

Glock is considered double action (partially staged striker) vs. XD's single action (fully staged striker).
I know...nit pickey!

 

[DanaT]

Frenchy, if that is a "techinclaity" that the glock is only partially cocked, then why can't traditional double action pistols that have a half cock setting be fired from the half cocked position? Wouldn;t that be the same as a Glock, half-cokced?

-Dana

 

[R Dub]

This argument has made the rounds in most of the forums. The bottom line is that Wilson made a decision that it belongs in ESP... so there we are! I wouldn't look for any change to that.

 

[Frenchy]

Frenchy, if that is a "techinclaity" that the glock is only partially cocked, then why can't traditional double action pistols that have a half cock setting be fired from the half cocked position? Wouldn;t that be the same as a Glock, half-cokced?

-Dana

It's hammer fired (say S&W, SIG) vs. striker fired (Glock, XD) Dana!...Different mechanics.

 

[Snake-eater 1]

skygun9,
Shoot the Nationals with your XD sometime and then report back to us on how well you did against the "true" ESP pistols.

At the National level, the XD would not do any better (or worse) against "true" SSP pistols. The competion has more to do with which "class" YOU are shooting in, rather than which "division" your GUN is in.

 

[Old School]

I have no issues with ESP. It allows me to add more junk to my XD (magwell, stipled frame) than SSP allows. Besides that, I enjoy running against guns that are 2X+ the cost of my little XD.

I hope I get to Nationals this year. If I do, I plan on tearing it up with my XD Tactical! Viva XD!!

 

[DanaT]

Yes, I understand that a hammer and striker are different mechaincs, but it is my understanding that the Glock isn't considered single action becuase the striker isn't fully cocked. The XD is condsidered single action because it's striker is fully cocked. Therefore, I don't see how banning the XD from SSP because its firing mechanism is fully cocked, allowing a Glock to have a partially cocked firing mechanism, but dissallowing hammer fired mechanisms to be partially cocked.

There are striker fired pistols (Walther P99) that fully decock and then are true double action (i.e the striker must be fully cocked by the trigger pull). This would be the equivalent to a full hammer down situation on a hammer fired pistol.

There just doesn't seem to be any logic there except "they are different".

-Dana

 

[Frenchy]

There just doesn't seem to be any logic there except "they are different".
-Dana

Oh!...Now you want logic... :lol:

 

[papasmurf]

I have no issues with ESP. It allows me to add more junk to my XD (magwell, stipled frame) than SSP allows. Besides that, I enjoy running against guns that are 2X+ the cost of my little XD.

I hope I get to Nationals this year. If I do, I plan on tearing it up with my XD Tactical! Viva XD!!

Isn't there an issue in idpa with the tactical barrel being slightly over 5"? I may be wrong, I'm new to idpa (only one match).

 

[Snake-eater 1]

I have no issues with ESP. It allows me to add more junk to my XD (magwell, stipled frame) than SSP allows. Besides that, I enjoy running against guns that are 2X+ the cost of my little XD.

I hope I get to Nationals this year. If I do, I plan on tearing it up with my XD Tactical! Viva XD!!

Isn't there an issue in idpa with the tactical barrel being slightly over 5"? I may be wrong, I'm new to idpa (only one match).

Doesn't matter how long the barrel is in a pistol, the whole pistol itself has to fit in a specific sized box. Barrel length is important in the revolver classes and there was a problem with 4.0 inch barrels; the revised rules are probably going to extend that length to 4.1 inches.

 

[MoJo]

I have no issues with ESP. It allows me to add more junk to my XD (magwell, stipled frame) than SSP allows. Besides that, I enjoy running against guns that are 2X+ the cost of my little XD.

I hope I get to Nationals this year. If I do, I plan on tearing it up with my XD Tactical! Viva XD!!

Isn't there an issue in idpa with the tactical barrel being slightly over 5"? I may be wrong, I'm new to idpa (only one match).

Doesn't matter how long the barrel is in a pistol, the whole pistol itself has to fit in a specific sized box. Barrel length is important in the revolver classes and there was a problem with 4.0 inch barrels; the revised rules are probably going to extend that length to 4.1 inches.

It's 4.2" according to the revised rule book on the IDPA website.

 

[Snake-eater 1]

It's 4.2" according to the revised rule book on the IDPA website.

Even better.