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Greetings:
Just read a comprehensive report from friend re 9mm +P+ recommending Remington 115g JHP and Winchester Ranger 127g SXT +P+. Incredible performance.
The article said that typically American manufacturers do not load 9mm as hot as it's loaded overseas for law enforcement.
My question is: Will the XD-9 handle it okay? Does SA recommend not using it?
Last year a fellow GI and LEO in civilian life did give me a box of the Winchester Ranger, but I have not used it. My 9mm's are Sig P225, SA xd-9SC, and SA xd-9 service model.
P.S. For those who too often, here, chastise those asking common questions, I did try the SEARCH, & found zelch.
 

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plus and plus P plus ammo is ok in the xd, although SA for liability reasons will say no. If you do have problems though the lifetime warrenty will cover it. That said I have shot plenty of the higher pressure stuff in my xd`s.
 

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I keep Fed +P+ in mine and let me tell you. BIG BOOM from a little bullet and BIG FIREBALL. :shock: :twisted:

I Like it a lot. (Forest Gump)
 

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As with any +P or +P+ or even +P++ ammunition, my suggestion is to use it spareingly. Use enough to be certain your gun will fire with it reliably, but don't use it for everyday plinking. Not only would it cost you a fortune (especially if you don't reload), but the wear on your pistol will happen so much faster.

Myself, I can't imagine +P+, I've seen someone shoot it out of a 1 3/4" Smith 38 snubbie, it was more bang and muzzle flash than anything.

Even if SA covers the warranty from extremely hot loads, its still the hassle of sending it back for repair/replacement....perhaps getting a kaboom, completely destroying your pistol, or worse losing a hand (or more!)
 

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I use Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP in my XD9 Service for my carry load.
I fired one box to make sure there were not any problems. For general range use I used WWB.
Is there much difference in performance between the +P JHP and the standard 124 gr JHP?
I really do not know, I just went with the recommendation from the operator of the range. I am certain someone in this forum would know. I have leared a lot from the post here.
 

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Any thoughts on +P .357 SIG loads... I am thinking of experimenting w/ super high velocity light weight bullets and any extra FPS I can get would be stellar.

.357 factory loads are already near 40K PSI... keep to that and not hedge any bets?
 

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I think you'd wear your gun out faster if you were to shoot it all the time, but I doubt that's the case (since it's usually a lot more expensive). For a few rounds a month or whatever to make sure your gun likes it for defense purposes should be fine I think.
 

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Compared to standard pressure 9mm, 357 SIG would be called +p+(SAAMI 40,000 PSI). New cartridges are already being designed with the max safe pressure possible in mind.

By the way, a buddy of mine tried out some Aguilla 135 grain .45 ACP going about 1400 FPS against a bowling pin and the bowling pin won. It just flatened on impact.
 

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Loading above SAAMI specs is how alot of guns are blown up. Not worth it IMO. As far as +P+ ammo, why? it runs above specs and for me, isnt worth blowing my gun apart or parts of my body. Maybe im poop but if you want something that hot, buy a .357sig.
If you do plan to load above specs, I hope you use a strain gauge and Chrony.
 

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This whole +P+ thing has always bothered me.

If your round is inferior enough to the point where you feel you need to stress out your gun with +badass+ rounds, shouldn't you move up to something else altogether?
 

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[TASF said:
Overkill]This whole +P+ thing has always bothered me.

If your round is inferior enough to the point where you feel you need ot stress out your gun with +badass+ rounds, shouldn't you move up to something else altogether?
There must be a snowball fight going on in Hades, because Overkill is making sense :lol:
 

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+P and +P+ isnt a scam to make more money... Nor is +P+ or +P ammo making up for some shortfall, as TASF impiled. First, lets define them:

+P ammo has a a SAMMI standard pressure it cannot exceed. This pressure is higher than "standard" , but probably ok to use in modern firearms. When in doubt, dont shoot it, and talk to the manufacturer of the firearm.

+P+ ammo HAS NO SAMMI standard, it is beyond the +P SAMMI pressure limit. It can be 100psi past the limit, or 5000psi past the limit--theres no standard. Most +P+ 9mm ammo tops out around 40-41K psi. Again, when in doubt, dont shoot it.

There is no SAMMI standard for +P or +P+ in either .357 SIG or .40 S&W---Ammo marked as such may be dangerous to fire, use common sense here. Both of these cartridges are really already loaded to their limits in factory loads.

Personally, I've fired the 124gr +P Speer GoldDot and the 127gr +P+ Ranger T loads in both the 3" XD and the 4" XD and have had no problems in many rounds. You WILL cause more wear and tear on the pistol, mostly to the recoil spring, but other parts will wear faster also. If you e-mail or call Springfield Armory, they will likely tell you what they told me:" +P is ok, but we dont reccomend +P+"(obviously, because there is no standard.)

I WOULD NOT FIRE the +P+ L7A1 submachine gun ammo thats on the market in any handgun-- its well over 40k psi. I have heard of some Glock guys getting 1400fps out of a G17 with this stuff, but I think its playing with fire, even in a Glock.

What do you gain with +P or +P+ ammo? Nothing is gauranteed except higher pressure. Generally, you gain velocity, but there is some ammo out there thats marked +P that isnt high velocity, like the IMI 158gr subsonic "carbine" load, intended to supressed UZI SMGs. So how much velocity might you gain? About 75-100fps for +P and most +P+ loads give 100-150fps more than a standard load with the same weight of bullet.

What does that give you? Depends. In some cases, you'll gain some penetration, in others the bullet is pushed too fast and fragments early, giving shallow penetration. Sometimes that extra velocity also overexpands the bullet, giving less then optimim wound cavity diameter. In other cases, more velocity gives better expansion, and a better wound profile. IF you want to know about a specific load, do some research, start by Googling: FBI Ballistics Tests.

Velocity dosnt equal "stopping power" and +P+ or +P loads may be worse than standard pressure loads in effecting a wound in a target you are trying to stop. "Stopping Power" is a myth. Fact is, handguns are poor fight stoppers, but they are also mor easily carried than a rifle, not to mention the concealment problem. Holes bleeding or central neverous system hits are the only fight stoppers--the former may take a long time if you place your shots poorly, the latter "usually" means DRT--Dead Right There.

Tin cans or badguys------> SHOOT 'EM TO THE GROUND, then asses the situation.
 

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Do you actually realize much of an increase in velocity with +P or +P+ in guns with short barrels such as a compact XD? Given that fact that some here observe big fireballs when shooting it I would guess a lot of the extra propellant is getting burnt in the air in front of the muzzle and the exit pressures are very high also thus wasting energy and resulting in a lot of muzzle blast and only a little increase in velocity. I thought +P and +P+ were primarily for SMGs and not handguns as they did not have the barrel length to realize much increase in velocity despite the increase in pressure. Has anyone chronographed the +P and +P+ in a handgun and compare it to the same round in a longer barrel firearm and then compared against the same bullet in a non +P or +P+ load?

mcb
 

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mcb said:
Do you actually realize much of an increase in velocity with +P or +P+ in guns with short barrels such as a compact XD? Given that fact that some here observe big fireballs when shooting it I would guess a lot of the extra propellant is getting burnt in the air in front of the muzzle and the exit pressures are very high also thus wasting energy and resulting in a lot of muzzle blast and only a little increase in velocity. I thought +P and +P+ were primarily for SMGs and not handguns as they did not have the barrel length to realize much increase in velocity despite the increase in pressure. Has anyone chronographed the +P and +P+ in a handgun and compare it to the same round in a longer barrel firearm and then compared against the same bullet in a non +P or +P+ load?

mcb
FWIW the 127gr +P+ Ranger T chronographed at 1194 fps from my subcompact XD-9... the listed speed for this load is about 1250-1275fps... IIRC. This velocity is pretty consistent with other peoples results in the G26 and other short barreled 9mm's. Unfortunately, it wasnt my chrono, and I didnt have more time to spend that day with the 4" XD.

With 9mm, the longer the barrel, the bigger the velocity increase, up to a barrel length of about 9-11" thats where you get peak velocity from most 9mm loads, +P or not. +P is not needed to get a bullet to work from the Subcompact.. the 147gr RangerT, GoldDot, or Golden Saber all work well from short barreled pistols (3"). The heavy load dosnt lose as much velocity from short barrels; basically its more efficent.

That said, the 124gr +P GoldDots, the 127gr +P+ Ranger T, and the 147gr Ranger T all expand well from either the 3" or 4" XD-9 in my experince
 

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I WOULD NOT FIRE the +P+ L7A1 submachine gun ammo thats on the market in any handgun-- its well over 40k psi. I have heard of some Glock guys getting 1400fps out of a G17 with this stuff, but I think its playing with fire, even in a Glock.
Are you kidding me???? Glocks are great guns but most do NOT have supported chambers and will not tolerate high pressures, this is what has led to so many KABOOMS. If I was (I wont) to push pressures in a handgun, it would not be in one with an unsupported chamber!

I reload for my .44mag and have a recipe for a VERY hot load but I am still not pushing what is safe in that gun. Another item to note, I bought a Ruger Super BlackHawk which is unarguably the strongest action next to only a RedHawk. I would not push any other handgun!

I dont know why anyone would want to play with fire by pressing the limits of their guns. I hope your several laes down from me at the range while your testing the strength.
You WILL cause more wear and tear on the pistol, mostly to the recoil spring
Dont forget the frame and slide battering that will take place.
 

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Overkill, you are partially wrong. You say "if you have to run over pressure, why not get a different load". You could say, "why are you running weak loads".

Why do I say this? Almost every modern 9mm is designed to fire the 9mm NATO cartridge. 9mm NATO is different than 9mm Luger. 9mm NATO is equivelent to 9mm Luger +P. Factory loadings that you buy commericially are "low power" 9mm Luger specs so that if you have an old WWII era pistol that you fie it in, it won't go Kaboom. The military doesn't have this problem because they rotate old weapons out.

Ok, as far as what does 9mm do. Here is what I have chrono'ed:
127gr Ranger SXT +p+ XDSub: 1206ft/sec
127gr Ranger SXT +p+ P89: 1237 ft/sec
127gr Ranger SXT +p+ PC9: 1375 ft/sec
124gr Winchester 9mm NATO P89: 1189ft/sec
115gr WWB P89: 1116ft/sec
115gr WWB XDsub: 1103 ft/sec
147gd Hydrashock P89: 939ft/sec



-Dana
 

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ichy_trigger said:
I WOULD NOT FIRE the +P+ L7A1 submachine gun ammo thats on the market in any handgun-- its well over 40k psi. I have heard of some Glock guys getting 1400fps out of a G17 with this stuff, but I think its playing with fire, even in a Glock.
Are you kidding me????
Read it again... I said I would NOT fire the L7A1 ammo... even in a glock.
 

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I wouldn't fire +P ammo as a steady diet in my XD's.

I wouldn't fire +P ammo as regular ammo in any of my guns.

That being said, as a defensive round, you bet.

Hot ammo on a semi-auto wears the slide stops and loosens up the frame slide fit, as you all know. So, why wear your gun out sooner.

I'm sure the XD with regular ammo will go 80K rounds before it needs a rebuild. My 9 has about 50K. My 40's have about 10K.

+P ammo will probably half your service life before a failure or rebuild.
 
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