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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I picked up a box of Winchester pdx1 .12ga today for loading in my Mossberg Persuader.The pdx1 load consists of a 1oz. rifled slug and 3 copper plated 00 buck pellets.Looks to be a pretty wicked load for home defense.Will it be o.k. to use the rifled slug in my 18" non-rifled cylinder bore? Has anyone had any experience with this load? These were purchased at the local wally world for $13.00 for 10 rounds.
Any comments would be appreciated.
 

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Yes, a rifled slug is designed for a smooth bore. That's what gives it the spin since the bored wont. Sabot slugs are smooth, there for being designed for rifled bores. I would think that a rifled slug would fire poorly in a rifled bore. I'm not 100% on that though.
 

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I use the PDX1 in my 870 - works great!
 

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I'd rather go with a straight 00 buck load if I want buckshot--usually about $8 for ten rounds, or a straight slug if I want a slug (currently $5.78/10 rounds at my local Runnings).

Don't much see the point of the neat-o "PDX" in a shotgun. I guess is does have tacticool black hulls and all...
 

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I'd rather go with a straight 00 buck load if I want buckshot ... or a straight slug if I want a slug .... Don't much see the point of the neat-o "PDX" in a shotgun....
It isn't about "Tacticool" or "black hulls" - I also use 3" magnum 15 pellet 00 as well, they are boring and red! If you think in terms of shock power, mass x velocity, the extra three 00 pellets along with the 1oz slug increases the mass leaving the barrel as well as providing a little more 'spread' than a single slug. For the same reason I use the 3" mag 00 buck round because there is more mass heading down the barrel than a 2 3/4" 00 buck round with fewer pellets. For HD/SD, my theory is simple - the bigger the 'hammer' stiking the target at over 1200 ft/sec, the more likly the threat will stop, or, if it still can, run the other way. So, the goal is achieved.... Has very little to do with Tacti-anything or the color of the shell. :rolleyes:

Besides, when the fire leaps 6 ft out the end of my 18" barrel in the dark, the BG will dirty their shorts and run the other way anyway! :p
 

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Interesting. I guess I go the other way.

I use a low-recoil 00 buck, because I've played around enough to know that first shot misses and/or failures to stop are not at all uncommon, even with a shotgun at close range, and getting back on target faster is better...and still having some night vision is kinda nice, too. And as far as "mass going downrange"...if it's one projectile, you have a point. When it's multiple projectiles, adding more mass--as in more projectiles, in this case--does not increase the effectiveness; each projectile will only penetrate so far and do so much damage.

But to each their own.
 

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Interesting. I guess I go the other way.

I use a low-recoil 00 buck, because I've played around enough to know that first shot misses and/or failures to stop are not at all uncommon, even with a shotgun at close range, and getting back on target faster is better...and still having some night vision is kinda nice, too. And as far as "mass going downrange"...if it's one projectile, you have a point. When it's multiple projectiles, adding more mass--as in more projectiles, in this case--does not increase the effectiveness; each projectile will only penetrate so far and do so much damage.

But to each their own.
Most people don't realize magnum super high pellet count buckshot loads move at about the same speed low pellet count low recoil loads do. Folks think because it kicks more it kills more. Same speed, double the pellet count means more recoil. I never understood why people use them.

Also, rifled slugs do not spin to the poster that posted they do. The riffling fins are there so the foster slug will pass through a choke easier
 

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And as far as "mass going downrange"...if it's one projectile, you have a point. When it's multiple projectiles, adding more mass--as in more projectiles, in this case--does not increase the effectiveness; each projectile will only penetrate so far and do so much damage.
OK, just for the sake of argument... Regarding the 3" mag 00 Buckshot - each of the 00 pells, I understand, are about the caliber of a .38, and potentially they could all penetrate. So, at relatively close range, it would be the same as getting hit with a .38 round 15 times simultaneously. Right? Thats sort of like a firing squad. Additionally, there would be 15 times the cumulative energy transfer as a single round, and just one if well placed would do the job.

Now with regard to the PDX1 12ga. round - the same principle applies. The energy transfer is cumulative. The 1oz slug and each of the 00 pells would do the job on its own if well placed. But, combining the total of the three projectiles is the same as four separate guns firing simultaneously - a 12ga w/slug, and three .38s.

Both of these loads are probably over-kill for HD/SD. But, I would rather have over-kill than not enough. As i said in the earlier post, my entire objective is to make the threat STOP, or if it still can, run not walk, the other way. :) As you wisely said, "...each to their own...." Anyway, have a great day Sir!
 

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Most people don't realize magnum super high pellet count buckshot loads move at about the same speed low pellet count low recoil loads do.
Perhaps, but according to the ballistics the Winchester 3" Mag 00 Buck has a muzzle velocity exceeding 1200 ft/sec - faster than some +p handgun loads.
 

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+1 on low recoil. my NEF has low recoil win 00buck
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is how i keep my shotgun loaded beside the bed.These are in order as to which would be chambered first.
1-Winchester pdx1
2-Winchester pdx1
3-Federal 00 buck
4-Federal 000 buck
5-Federal 00 buck
All are 2-3/4" normal velocity loads.
I figure that i would give the bad guy a variety of loads to choose from! :twisted:
 

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Perhaps, but according to the ballistics the Winchester 3" Mag 00 Buck has a muzzle velocity exceeding 1200 ft/sec - faster than some +p handgun loads.
The pellets at the end of the shot string are so deformed, if they stay anywhere near a good pattern they are not going to penetrate as much. 1200 fps is a low recoil loads velocity too. Less deformation, less recoil with the low recoil rounds is a huge advantage. Magnum loads do nothing but make people warm and fuzzy thinking all that that recoil is helping on the other end.

Velocity don't kill anyway so I ain't worried about that.
 

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OK, just for the sake of argument... Regarding the 3" mag 00 Buckshot - each of the 00 pells, I understand, are about the caliber of a .38, and potentially they could all penetrate. So, at relatively close range, it would be the same as getting hit with a .38 round 15 times simultaneously. Right? Thats sort of like a firing squad. Additionally, there would be 15 times the cumulative energy transfer as a single round, and just one if well placed would do the job.

Now with regard to the PDX1 12ga. round - the same principle applies. The energy transfer is cumulative. The 1oz slug and each of the 00 pells would do the job on its own if well placed. But, combining the total of the three projectiles is the same as four separate guns firing simultaneously - a 12ga w/slug, and three .38s.

Both of these loads are probably over-kill for HD/SD. But, I would rather have over-kill than not enough. As i said in the earlier post, my entire objective is to make the threat STOP, or if it still can, run not walk, the other way. :) As you wisely said, "...each to their own...." Anyway, have a great day Sir!
First off, 00 is not .36 in diameter (similar to a .38 projectile)...000 is .36. IIRC, 00 is .32...similar to a .32acp pistol--not known as a manstopper.

But that really doesn't matter, because...

Just because something is .36" in diameter, does not mean it has the same ballistic effectiveness...in this case, bear in mind that a .38spl round--say, a 158gr SWCHP--has close to three times the weight of a 00 pellet. Claiming otherwise is similar to saying that a .38spl has similar effectiveness as, say, a .357 Maximum--after all, they fire the same size bullet, right?;)

And I recommend you stop thinking about energy transfer as an effective wounding mechanism. It's not. The energy transferred is similar to a hard punch, or being hit by a baseball bat...and while neither is pleasant, they both transfer similar amounts of ft/lbs as most gunshots. So, as far as effectiveness is concerned, one must consider each individual projectile.

Things you may want to consider.
 

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First off, 00 is not .36 in diameter (similar to a .38 projectile)...000 is .36. IIRC, 00 is .32...similar to a .32acp pistol--not known as a manstopper.

But that really doesn't matter, because...

Just because something is .36" in diameter, does not mean it has the same ballistic effectiveness...in this case, bear in mind that a .38spl round--say, a 158gr SWCHP--has close to three times the weight of a 00 pellet. Claiming otherwise is similar to saying that a .38spl has similar effectiveness as, say, a .357 Maximum--after all, they fire the same size bullet, right?;)

And I recommend you stop thinking about energy transfer as an effective wounding mechanism. It's not. The energy transferred is similar to a hard punch, or being hit by a baseball bat...and while neither is pleasant, they both transfer similar amounts of ft/lbs as most gunshots. So, as far as effectiveness is concerned, one must consider each individual projectile.

Things you may want to consider.
OK, OK,... I surrender to your Superior argument... But, regardless, anyway you look at it, at close range the ammo I am suggesting is going to make a hole big enough to drive a truck through.... I am certain the threat will stop - Mission accomplished.
 

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OK, OK,... I surrender to your Superior argument... But, regardless, anyway you look at it, at close range the ammo I am suggesting is going to make a hole big enough to drive a truck through.... I am certain the threat will stop - Mission accomplished.
Sorry if I challenge your preconceptions...if this bothers you, you may want to examine why.

But before you do that, let me tell you why a shotgun is not all that most people think it's cracked up to be.

One of my EMT trainers was on a local county's tactical team. One day, during a high risk entry, the person behind him in the stack's shotgun (loaded with buckshot) accidently discharged--at point blank range--into the back of his thigh. It took a chunk out of his femur, and ripped up his femoral artery.

He didn't realize he'd been shot. He heard the blast, felt the heat, and thought someone behind him fumbled a flashbang. He didn't realize anything was wrong until he tried to take a step on the leg, and it collapsed.

He didn't feel any pain until the tac medic was kneeling on his femoral, and telling him to lie still.

He was still in the fight up to that point. If he'd had to, I'm sure he would have done just fine if he would have needed to use his weapon.

This almost certainly would have been a fatal wound if a well equipped paramedic hadn't been a few feet behind him. And while it put him on the ground (after another step), it didn't STOP him.

More food for thought.
 

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Sorry if I challenge your preconceptions...if this bothers you, you may want to examine why....
Not a problem - to be challenged is healthy! :) Besides, the conversation is fun! It is a sad thing for someone to believe they have nothing left to learn - almost as bad as reaching the end of the internet.... :neutral:

Have a good evening Sir!
 

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Wow, anyone else think it feels like it's getting hot in here.... j/k. Some very good valid points here and good food for thought.

Let's face it, we all do what we feel is the best ways to protect our familys. I myself research ballistic data on the internet for different shotgun defense loads and choose accordingly. I mean, beyond that there's not much else I can do. Sure, I can take another mans word for it but the real world data doesn't lie. Before anyone says it, i'm not saying my research is a argument closer by any means. It just says for myself, i'm comfortable with my final decisions on how to protect myself.

Winter is coming which means clothing will be heavier on the BG. Therefor a slug/ball combo isn't all that bad of an idea even though that's not how i've chosen but regardless still a great idea. Personally i've decided to use higher velocity at 1600 fps using Hornady Critical Defense 9 pellet. Sure it has higher recoil but i've nixed that by installing a SpecOps stock that does indeed reduce the recoil to that of a low recoil defense round or maybe even less and followup shots are very acceptable.

I'm confident that in a bad situation that muscle memory will kick in and the rack and trigger pull will be almost automatic in a very quick fashion.

Practice, Practice, Practice.....
 

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Sorry if I challenge your preconceptions...if this bothers you, you may want to examine why.

But before you do that, let me tell you why a shotgun is not all that most people think it's cracked up to be.

One of my EMT trainers was on a local county's tactical team. One day, during a high risk entry, the person behind him in the stack's shotgun (loaded with buckshot) accidently discharged--at point blank range--into the back of his thigh. It took a chunk out of his femur, and ripped up his femoral artery.

He didn't realize he'd been shot. He heard the blast, felt the heat, and thought someone behind him fumbled a flashbang. He didn't realize anything was wrong until he tried to take a step on the leg, and it collapsed.

He didn't feel any pain until the tac medic was kneeling on his femoral, and telling him to lie still.

He was still in the fight up to that point. If he'd had to, I'm sure he would have done just fine if he would have needed to use his weapon.

This almost certainly would have been a fatal wound if a well equipped paramedic hadn't been a few feet behind him. And while it put him on the ground (after another step), it didn't STOP him.

More food for thought.
This is along the lines of people thinking just cause it's a .45 or .44 mag or whatever large caliber hand gun will kill somebody with a hit in the arm.

Shot placement counts folks, unless they lose consciousness from low blood pressure, collapsed lungs (both lungs!) or you take out the heart they can still fight back.

I don't really believe 3 little pellets behind a 1 oz slug is gonna make a difference, if you put that slug where it needs to go the pellets won't make any difference. They will also be pretty badly deformed and at much distance will fly off who knows where.

I'd stick with good ol 00 bucks or slugs, whichever trips your trigger. I don't see 15 pellets being that much more effective than 9, at the close ranges your talking the pattern will not spread a whole lot anyway.
 
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