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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to see what you guys think about Winchester .40 s&w ammo 180 gr vs 165 gr (white box). I normally use the 180gr in my XD40 tactical , SHIELD .40 and G23.
 

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For range use, or carry?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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I was praying you were going to say target practice.

I don't own a .40, but I never really care what grain I'm shooting in target practice/training applications. One might hit a little higher than the other, that's about it.
 

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What Nathan said. I buy whatever is available/ cheaper. I carry 165 so I usually try to practice with 165.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I was praying you were going to say target practice.

I don't own a .40, but I never really care what grain I'm shooting in target practice/training applications. One might hit a little higher than the other, that's about it.
Haha. I use Critical Defense home defense ammo in my home mags.

Local gun show has the 165 gr in stock and I was gonna pick up a brick or 2 of the 165gr. They are all out of the 180gr.

What Nathan said. I buy whatever is available/ cheaper. I carry 165 so I usually try to practice with 165.
Ill compare the 180/165 at the range next weekend. Ill report back on it.
 

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The 180 has a slightly sharper recoil in my Glocks. Barely enough to tell the difference. If the 165 is in stock, I'd say go with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The 180 has a slightly sharper recoil in my Glocks. Barely enough to tell the difference. If the 165 is in stock, I'd say go with it.


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I added 1000 rounds of .40 165gr and 500 rounds of 45auto 230gr to my storage.
 

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I've found 165gr to shoot a couple inches higher than 180gr at about 12-13 yards. I didn't really notice any difference in recoil.
 

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I'm surprised to see posters say they hardly notice the difference in recoil between 180 and 165. It's noticeable in my XD40. Also, when deer hunting, I went from my usual 30-06 180 grains to a 165 grain projectile, and my shoulder is very grateful, especially after range practice. With 180's I could only shoot about a box of 20 before my shoulder had enough, with the 165's I can shoot 3 boxes or more before the shoulder wants to go home.
 

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Well, there's a difference. You won't typically find a 180 gr. load above 1000 FPS, or sub-sonic. with a load like the Remington 165 gr. Golden Saber that's rated 1150 FPS, Super-sonic, both energy and momentum are higher For instance with velocity more like 975 FPS, a 180 gr. JHP will have 380 Ft/Lbs of KE with a momentum of .779 Lb-seconds. A 165 gr. JHP at 1150 would have an energy of 485 Ft/Lbs with momentum at .843 Lb-seconds. Personally, I don't do sub-sonic in anything until I get up to 200 gr. JHPs in .45 ACP. People get all wrapped up in what 'doc' Roberts opinion is and frankly, I could care less. I test my own and he's a dentist. If you go here: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo You'll see the bias for sub-sonic 180 gr. JHP loads, but if you read the complete section on .40 S&W you'll find a scant bit of information for a load that passes all of the testing: the 155 gr. Gold Dot at 1200 FPS. That's KE at 496 Ft/Lbs with momentum at .959 Lb-seconds that's about as high as you'll find in a factory load. Some people assume greater momentum and penetration by bullet weight, and that's what it is: ASSUMPTION. With a good performing JHP, the math and physics just don't lie. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've found 165gr to shoot a couple inches higher than 180gr at about 12-13 yards. I didn't really notice any difference in recoil.
What gun were you using?

I'm surprised to see posters say they hardly notice the difference in recoil between 180 and 165. It's noticeable in my XD40. Also, when deer hunting, I went from my usual 30-06 180 grains to a 165 grain projectile, and my shoulder is very grateful, especially after range practice. With 180's I could only shoot about a box of 20 before my shoulder had enough, with the 165's I can shoot 3 boxes or more before the shoulder wants to go home.
That is a big difference

Hopefully testing both out this weekend
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, there's a difference. You won't typically find a 180 gr. load above 1000 FPS, or sub-sonic. with a load like the Remington 165 gr. Golden Saber that's rated 1150 FPS, Super-sonic, both energy and momentum are higher For instance with velocity more like 975 FPS, a 180 gr. JHP will have 380 Ft/Lbs of KE with a momentum of .779 Lb-seconds. A 165 gr. JHP at 1150 would have an energy of 485 Ft/Lbs with momentum at .843 Lb-seconds. Personally, I don't do sub-sonic in anything until I get up to 200 gr. JHPs in .45 ACP. People get all wrapped up in what 'doc' Roberts opinion is and frankly, I could care less. I test my own and he's a dentist. If you go here: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo You'll see the bias for sub-sonic 180 gr. JHP loads, but if you read the complete section on .40 S&W you'll find a scant bit of information for a load that passes all of the testing: the 155 gr. Gold Dot at 1200 FPS. That's KE at 496 Ft/Lbs with momentum at .959 Lb-seconds that's about as high as you'll find in a factory load. Some people assume greater momentum and penetration by bullet weight, and that's what it is: ASSUMPTION. With a good performing JHP, the math and physics just don't lie. ;)
Thank you for the hard data.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Going to the range tomorrow to compare the 180gr to 165gr
 

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Ive shot both 180 and 165's, what ever was available at the time but, I did prefer the 165's.. they seemed to have a little better poa/poi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ive shot both 180 and 165's what ever was available at the time but I did prefer the 165's.. they seemed to have a little better poa/poi.
I normally buy/shoot 180gr but they were all out. So I picked up a brick of 165gr. Both were the same price.

Zenbox will be at the range with me so I can get him opinion on the 2 rounds too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So I went shooting this morning. I used my XD .40 tactical and M&P SHIELD .40
myself and Zenbox shoot both guns with the 180gr and the 165gr.
I felt like it was easier to get back on target with the 180gr. I had a better grouping as well. The 165gr felt like it had more recoil.

Ill let Zenbox post what he thinks.

180gr for me from now on.
 

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I tend to go middle weights in most handgun calibers. 124+P in 9mm, 165 in 40. Both Gold Dot. Only in 45 would I go the heavy weight route. While both the loads I currently carry are on Doctor Robert's list, I don't treat the list as the only loads available worthy of the SD role.

For practice, I look for a corresponding weight slug first. If the price and/or availability is a good match, I grab it. Otherwise, I look elsewhere. I just found a decent deal on 115gr Lawman ammo. I bought a case.

Edit: Holy crap! I just checked a copy of the "the list" from 2013 and my 40 load isn't there. I could have sworn it was there. Uh oh...... ;)
 
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