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Discussion Starter #1
It can be purchased at Walmart for a little over $13.00 for a box of 50. Does anyone have an opinion of this load for self-defense carry? I'm sure it's probably not as good as a Hydroshok, Gold Dot or Corbon, but am wondering how it might stack up in the greater scheme of things.

Rufus
 

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IMO, a hollow point is a hollow point. its only purpose is to not over penetrate and kill someone else.

as long as you can place your shots, anything flying at 900+ FPS is going to do significant damage. there are other reasons for purchasing high quallity HP ammo, like penetrating vehicle glass while retaining deadly velocity for example.


... but you can be sure that there will be people(a lot of them) who think that you should have the "best" hollow point available.
 

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I have yet to see these being sold at my local Wal-mart. I'll have to ask the next time I'm there and shoot some through my XD40. I'll try them out on some watermelons or pumpkins (real cheap after Halloween)!
 

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For the most part, I agree with the rooster in saying that a HP is a HP. (I do have high regards for the bonded gold dot however). This being said, I would reccomend the 100 pack of Remington HPs over the WWB stuff. They consistantly clocked about 70fps faster out of my .40 tac.
 

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I tend to agree with the common response so far: Doesn't matter which HP your using as long as you can use is well.

That said, I have some comments on the Winchester 180gr JHP that you are asking about. I ran(using that term loosely) a box through my XD40 to give them a try. With a full 12 rounds in the mag, every round FTF, hitting the top of the chamber, until I got to round 7 then it ran smoothly. I then tried to partially load the mag and discovered that anything over 6 rounds would FTF until I was back down to 6 left in the mag. I've never had 1 problem with my XD40 with anything I've put through it up until this point. Just seems like the magazine spring is too stiff for this JHP. BTW, my father also had severe FTF problems with this round in his XD40 using 10rd mags. He said the Rems ran fine though.

Anyone have any insight or similar experience?

Thanks
 

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Stopped off at Wally World the other day and noticed they have Remington JHP in a 100 rd Box for $19.XX

Haven't tried any yet, but not a bad price for HPs
 

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Like JD said a center mass hit with even a WWB is going to be better than a miss with the superduper elite tactical commando 197.9978grain JHPEBTFMJ round.

I have gathered near enough protection ammo to comduct some real world testing. I will be launching these at slabs of meat backed by some ballistic gelatin to see what the damage has done AND see how our XD's like them.
 

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There is alot of difference in HP ammo. Not really much if you shoot someone who is not wearing a shirt, but the good HP's stand out when shot through heavy denim, a down jacket, a leather jacket, wall board or other tough medium. I have seen Hydra Shocks and Gold Dots shot through heavy denim and wall board have the HP's plug and you have nothing more than a FMJ which over penetrates. I have not seen this with Winchester's Ranger "T" Series or Remington's Golden Saber. I have been to several ballistic demos and have seen how these rounds preform in various mediums. Think about this, your life depends on the ammo you carry in your gun. Why carry average ammo when premium is available. I want to have the very best ammo I can get, even if it means double the cost. I have not seen testing on COR-BON or Hornady, but of the big four Winchester, Remington, Speer and Federal the best performing HP's are Winchester Ranger "T" Series and Remington Golden Saber.
 

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I've got about 100 rounds of WWB JHP ammo and I've already shot 150 rnds of it. No FTF or FTE. As far as the HP ammo debate.. I generally stick with the "you get what you pay for" axiom. However, I would not hesitate to use it as personal defense ammo for carry. It functions reliably for me, and if you're concerned with under penetration, throw some FMJ ammo in the same mag. Of course then you're faced w/ overpenetration.... damned if you do, damned if you dont.
 

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With the right ammo, you don't get under or over penetration. It's not a good thing to mix ammo for self defense, you should carry only one type of load. If you get sued, it will be an issue if your using mixed ammo. FMJ's are a terrible choice for self defense.
 

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Unscientific I admit, Today I shot 10rds of Win 180gr HP Wally World ammo in to water logged phone books. XD Service
Results

Penetration 12-15 inches

Expanded dia .575-.715

Retained weight 167gr-172gr

Ammo lab or someone did tests and came up with acceptable results, For me I would have no problem carrying these. I also ran the remaining 90rds I bought 2 boxes. No FTF or FTE
 

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kc5vze said:
I tend to agree with the common response so far: Doesn't matter which HP your using as long as you can use is well.

That said, I have some comments on the Winchester 180gr JHP that you are asking about. I ran(using that term loosely) a box through my XD40 to give them a try. With a full 12 rounds in the mag, every round FTF, hitting the top of the chamber, until I got to round 7 then it ran smoothly. I then tried to partially load the mag and discovered that anything over 6 rounds would FTF until I was back down to 6 left in the mag. I've never had 1 problem with my XD40 with anything I've put through it up until this point. Just seems like the magazine spring is too stiff for this JHP. BTW, my father also had severe FTF problems with this round in his XD40 using 10rd mags. He said the Rems ran fine though.

Anyone have any insight or similar experience?

Thanks

I ran two mags of the WWB 180gr HP with my XD40 just to see if they fed reliably. No FTF/FTE/FTFire at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'll probably pick up a couple more boxes of it. I wouldn't want to be shot with it. Heck. I wouldn't want to be shot with a BB! :D :D :D
 

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I have said this before. just about every HP looks good in ballistic gel or wet phone books. What separates the best from OK is how they preform when having to pass through some other type of medium. Shoot your basic HP's through wallboard, a heavy leather jacket, triple down coat or heavy clothing and see how they do. Ever wonder why LE doesn't carry basic HP's, it's because they want every advantage they can when the SHTF. Bullets do make a big difference, I myself am going to carry the very best that I can.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
David_4 said:
I have said this before. just about every HP looks good in ballistic gel or wet phone books. What separates the best from OK is how they preform when having to pass through some other type of medium. Shoot your basic HP's through wallboard, a heavy leather jacket, triple down coat or heavy clothing and see how they do. Ever wonder why LE doesn't carry basic HP's, it's because they want every advantage they can when the SHTF. Bullets do make a big difference, I myself am going to carry the very best that I can.
Hydrashoks are my primary carry load. I am thinking of an inexpensive "fill up the ammo box" round to have just in case the SHTF. At around $20.00 per 100 at Wally-World, these are only another $5.00 more expensive than WWB 165 FMJ Target loads.

No, they are not for everyday carry. Intended for another use. Should have explained myself fully.
 

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"IMO, a hollow point is a hollow point"


" but you can be sure that there will be people(a lot of them) who think that you should have the "best" hollow point available."

therooster is correct here two times, even tho he is also incorrect once. He is right in his opinion, because it is his opinion. But, since it is only an opinion and not based on fact, he is incorrect.

I will agree with his second statement and as a matter of fact, just like David_4, I will go with the best ammo for self defense, because my life and my families' are worth it.

This is a basically a repeat of prior threads concerning an excellent self defense ammo. therooster and a few others believe any old hollow point will do as they pretty much are all the same. I, and I believe David, from what I'm reading, prefer to base our decisions on fact. I will again, probably ad nauseum to some, tout the expertise of those who run and post on tacticalforums.com

Old Man Rufus, please, rather than swallow comments from those who believe all HPs are the same, despite ballistic evidence to the contrary, and who believe a wet phone book will suffice for comparision to a human body, I would recommend go to the above forum and click on the terminal effects forum. Do a search for pistol ammo and you will find some excellent reports based on scientific testing by Dr. Gary Roberts, not anecdotal stories.

Furthermore, there are sources where you can buy excellent defensive rounds like Ranger Talon, Gold Dot and Golden Sabre, to mention a few, relatively inexpensively. Say 50 rounds from $12 to $20. Those have been posted on this forum before.

I would say practice both with your range ammo and a good defensive ammo, so you will know how both will handle and how you react when shooting them. Good luck and stay safe with whatever ammo you decide to utilize.

Go to the 2nd page of Terminal Effects Forum to a thread entitled "LE gel testing April 2005." That should give you the info you need. Sorry, I don't know why the url link isn't working for me, it has in the past. You will have to type it out I guess.
 

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Shoot 10 rounds each of the Win 180 USA JHP and Ranger T through denim into gel, will get more failures to expand w the USA stuff.

Shoot ten each of the Ranger T and Gold Dot through glass, will get more separation w the Ranger T...

From Indiana SP tests, through denim into hogs:

Fed 147/9 HS expanded to .50 caliber
Win 180/40 JHP did not expand at all

From Pierce county SD tests through plywood:

Fed 147 HST 12.5/.59
Win 180 RT 21.5/.42

Test results are like opinions; everybody has one. ;)
 
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