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Discussion Starter #1
an old question since it replaced the 1911 in service. This always causes a firestorm! I think the 92FS/M9 catches a bad rap for no reason. I really liked the M9 I was issued and I like my personal M9 and Inox.

The M9 is a solid full metal frame. It is durable, reliable, and over all is a good pistol. I have never had accuracy issues with it, and the only problems I had with my issued M9 were the mags that came with it. People complained about the weak slides cracking on them when they first hit the hands of soldiers, but in reality it was only a few cases that got blown out of proportion, and ever since the issue was fixed we never heard of that again.

People complain that the 9mm is a weak panzy round, but it is not the case, the only problem is the high muzzle velocity and rounds going right through their desired target, a problem that can be fixed with hollow points.

I feel the M9 is a rock solid great pistol, just my opinion.

So why does the M9 catch a bad rap??? Dont base your points on "you knew someone who had one, or I shot one once" LOL. Try and use personal experience for either good or bad comments.
 

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I think there are a lot of people who admit to the M9 being a fine weapon. I looked at one just a few days ago. Id take a M9 over a 1911 any day for a combat weapon.
 

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Only trouble is that Geneva Convention (I think) does not allow JHPs for military use. Thus, compared to a 45ACP, the 9mm is less effective and likely to overpenetrate without causing sufficient disruption in the target.
 

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A lot of people don't like the 9mm ball round that the military is forced into and this spills over into their opinion of the M9.

ALSO the M9 was chosen over the SIG226 in military trials largely based on the lower cost of the M9. A lot of folks who really like SIGs were miffed and disparaged the M9 too.

The gun isn't without its problems. Like a lot of firearms, it had trouble dealing with sand and different parts had to be fixed (esp the magazines). There were also the typical early production issues with some of the older specimens that have largely gone away.

It's a pretty versatile gun - there are some cool modified 92s over on berettaforum.net
 

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Personally, I am a Beretta M9 fanatic. They are very accurate. They are very reliable. I don't mind the 9mm round.

The only thing that bugs me is the open bikini slide design. It makes for a beautiful design, but has a lot of "pinch" points that can trap clothing, debris, skin, dirt, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
very good posts so far, I enjoy hearing other peoples thoughts!

I just thought of this because I ordered my wrap around grips for my 92FS Inox LOL, I am very excited.
 

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People complain that the 9mm is a weak panzy round...
That is the problem in a nutshell and the complaint I hear the most from people, including ME, who have carried an M9.

While I loved the pistol in terms of its function, reliability, accuracy and general ease of use, not to mention mag capacity, I am not a huge fan of the 9mm cartridge when loaded with the FMJ ammo that the military was "kind enough to provide" for use on duty (and which was the only Hague Convention legal ammo to use with the pistol in terms of engaging enemy combatants).

Look at it from a ballistics standpoint, comparing FMJ loads for both the .45acp and the 9mm. The .45acp combat load uses a bullet almost twice the weight of the 9mm load. The .45acp, while 350fps slower, still produces more muzzle energy and greater "knock-down" power than the lighter, but faster 9mm round. The .45acp combat loads are proven extremely effective over the last 100 years (give or take), from everything from crazies hopped up on drugs to various other theaters of operation. It is no mere coincidence that you see operators in various special forces units in all branches of the armed services opting for the .45acp instead of the 9mm. In stark contrast, the 9mm has consistently been hailed as not very combat effective. The reasons that the military went to the 9mm were primarily because you could carry much more ammo for the same weight, you could get 15+1 rounds instead of 7+1 (or 8+1). Despite defying all reason and logic in terms of combat effectiveness, the military opted for the lighter/faster cartridge in a lighter/higher capacity pistol, seemingly buying into a flawed theory of combat effectiveness that more rounds shot at the enemy = more dead enemies, instead of better aimed, but fewer rounds shot at the enemy = more dead enemies. Additionally, given the lower recoil of the 9mm as compared to the .45acp, the military reasoned that it the M9 would be easier for people to train on and use than the 1911.

Again, I am a fan of the M9/M92 pistols...I just don't want to trust my life to one with FMJ ammo when compared to a .45acp. If were were comparing the 9mm to the .45acp with just about any available hollow-point ammo rather than the FMJ stuff, that huge gap in ballistics changes and I might be a little more forgiving to the M9, but that just isn't the case.
 

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Back in the early days of its US military accpetance, the early M9s were shot with some super hot 9mm ammo that was actually designed for MP5s and other subguns. As a result, some of these guns split their sides and were beat to junk. One M9 had its slide come back and kill its shooter.

Becuase of these failings, Beretta re-designed the locking block and beefed things up and with standard 9mm ball, the M9 actually holds up really well.

Because of these very small number of failings, the rumor got started that the M9 was junk or that the slide would crack and so on. Truth is, it was VERY FEW pistols and the overly hot ammo was the culprit. But you know how rumors get started..."I heard that..." and so on.

Then, the US military contracted to a company called Check Mate for M9 replacement magazines. Check Mate gave these mags a funky and abrasive coating to the steel mag walls. This coating was NOT a good mix with sandy climes and the M9 began jamming with these mags. Rumor number two: the M9 is not good in the sand. Truth was...the crappy subcontracted mags caused this. Ragular factory mags with smooth magwalls rarely had this trouble.

Another factor: soldiers are VERY HARD on ALL equipment and will break anything. So, when a few M9s broke, due to total neglect, another rumor of these being flimsy began. Truth here was that some soldiers never cleaned them and mistreated them greatly. Some 1911s also broke because of the same treatment...but everyone seemed to forget that!

Then, there is the problem of the low stopping power of ALl 9mm ball ammo. Not a fault of Beretta or the M9 design...but of the round itself. It simply does not have the stopping power of the 45ACP because of its lighter weight. This led to another rumor with an ounce of truth - the M9 has weak stopping power. Truth is that 9mm ammo has come a long ways and with modern hollowpoints, it is MUCH better than it used to be.

In my own expereinces with the M9/92/96 Berettas, I have found the pistol to be very accurate, soft recoiling and very reliable. It is a joy to shoot and a very well made pistol.

Personally, my "problems" with this pistol are few and not really problems. I think its too big for CCW and the safety is not easy to reach way up on the slide. Its not good for women or shooters with smaller hands, either.

For open carry or home defense, I like it alot - the low recoil and long sight raduis make for some sweet shooting on the range too. Holsters are everywhere and mags are cheap, too.

So...if you ask me..the M9 gets a bad rap that it largely does not deserve. If it fits your hands and you like it....its never a bad choice.

So thats my take on this pistol. For what its worth...I really like this design and think its the best Beretta pistol they ever made.

- brickboy240
 

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Only trouble is that Geneva Convention (I think) does not allow JHPs for military use. Thus, compared to a 45ACP, the 9mm is less effective and likely to overpenetrate without causing sufficient disruption in the target.
It was the Hague convention that stated that, heres some good info...

The Gun Zone -- Hague Convention

As far as the M9, I carried it in the military as well and while I never bought one, I always thought they were a nice weapon and never had any issues with them.
 

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I just picked one up, and I think it's GREAT!!! Super accurate. You can carry it hammer down, "ready to rock" like a Revolver.
+ it has "Double strike" capability (someone was talking about that in an earlier XD thread).

Not to mention, ease of field stripping (as long as your not fighting Jet Lee). ;)

...as for Caliber, they do make them in .40 too (although, a .45 Beretta would be pretty sick!)

 

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I just thought of one more reason the M9 gets a bad rap - it followed a very popular and prolific pistol that saw our country through its worst wars...the M1911.

Many of us grew up shooting and trusting a 1911 45 auto. Theres no doubt, its America's pistol. All steel and a proven pistol that fits well in the hand and points like a dream.

When you replace this with an Italian design 9mm that is more complicated and has an alloy frame...yes..there is going to be some resistance. The fact that many units and police/SWAT units still use the 191 shows how prolific its design really is.

So yes, the fact that the M9 had some VERY big boots to fill, did not help it any. Just about any 9mm that was to follow the 1911 was going to have a rough going.

All in all...the M9 is not a bad choice as far as full-size 9mm service pistols go. Personally, I'd rather have the SIG P226, but thats because its grip fits me better, but you could DEFINATELY do alot worse than the M9 Beretta for a service pistol.

- brickboy240
 

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Really it is looked down on for the same reason that the M-16 family of rifles is still looked down on; it replaced a long serving, beloved American design with a newer weapon firing a smaller round.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I do agree that the 9mm ball ammunition is not the best, and I would much rather carry a .45 when it comes down to the FMJ, but besides that you cant really go wrong with an M9. I had one on my side through Iraq and it faired pretty well.
 

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How do you like that Cougar?

Summit is selling nice used 40 Cougars with night sights, 3 mags for 300 bucks...I am tempted since that is a very good price.

- brickboy240
 

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were did you get those grips???? for the 92FS
I picked them up on BerettaForum, there is a a guy over there that has tons of Itallian Beretta parts. I can not remember his name. Got into a disagreement with a moderator there about a listing I had in the classifieds. I lost. I was invited to leave.

How do you like that Cougar?

Summit is selling nice used 40 Cougars with night sights, 3 mags for 300 bucks...I am tempted since that is a very good price.

- brickboy240
I love the 9mm Cougars, this one is a model 8000F, and is one of the Italian Cougars, the Inox's are fairly rare.
It's a 1993 manufacture, still have not shot it. It IS on my list of things to do!
The $300 jobs are made by Stoeger, a Turkish company, now owned by Beretta. Some say the quality is the same as Stoeger has all the Cougar dies, presses, and machines.
 
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