What weight .40 S&W Hydrashocks?
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Yes the small/lighter the faster as long as they retain weight and open up all work well.I really like speer gold dot look here
http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=21757
http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=21757
THe 165 vs. 180 is often question and you will get the same amount of answer for both. I would buy a box of each grain and have a buddy randomly load a full mag with one grain and have you shoot it and do the same for all the grain and see what feels best to you. I personally like 165 feels more comfy for me, 180 kicks too much for me and maybe that is because I been using Blazer, which naturally kicks more.
You should also try Winchester Rangers, Gold Dots, or Federal Taticals <- if you can get a hand on some.
I carry for my .40 Federal Taticals 180grain and a spare mag of Speer Lawman FMJ for in case I hafta shoot through something and for my .45 I carry Winchester Rangers 230grain with also a spare mag of Lawman 230grain
You should also try Winchester Rangers, Gold Dots, or Federal Taticals <- if you can get a hand on some.
I carry for my .40 Federal Taticals 180grain and a spare mag of Speer Lawman FMJ for in case I hafta shoot through something and for my .45 I carry Winchester Rangers 230grain with also a spare mag of Lawman 230grain
One note on the 165 gr. Hydra Shoks. A rep from ATK told me that the 165's are "watered down" to reduce the recoil. If you look at the ballistics, they are about the same speed as a 180 gr. Lower speed = Lower energy (given the same weight bullet).
Federal advertises the 165 Hydrashok with a muzzle velocity of 980 fps and 352 lb/ft of energy.
Winchester Ranger 165 is advertised with a muzzle velocity of 1130 fps and 468 lb/ft of energy.
Remington Golden Sabre 165 is advertised with a muzzle velocity of 1150 fps and 485 lb/ft of energy.
I'm not saying the Hydra Shoks are bad, this is just something to keep in mind with your ammo selection.
Federal advertises the 165 Hydrashok with a muzzle velocity of 980 fps and 352 lb/ft of energy.
Winchester Ranger 165 is advertised with a muzzle velocity of 1130 fps and 468 lb/ft of energy.
Remington Golden Sabre 165 is advertised with a muzzle velocity of 1150 fps and 485 lb/ft of energy.
I'm not saying the Hydra Shoks are bad, this is just something to keep in mind with your ammo selection.
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5,688 Posts
I know I said I was not going to chime in anymore about ammo questions, but I'm tired of seeing people praise the Federal Hydra shok ammo as an excellent ammo. It isn't. This time, instead of just saying go to tacticalforums.com and read about it, I'll bring to you.
The following is from a nationally known ballistics expert and a Lt. Commander in the Navy. He has tested thousands of rounds for both military and le purposes. He does not have any interest in the sale of some of the ammo he recommends. His purpose is to make sure le/military have the most robust ammo handgun round available for their safety. His name is Dr. Gary Roberts. Believe it or not.
"As written in numerous previous threads about older bullet designs the Hydra-Shok was state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is generally significantly superior to the older designs. The following .40 S&W loads have all demonstrated outstanding performance:"
Speer 155 gr JHP (53961)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Fed 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Fed 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Rem 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer 180 gr JHP (53966)
Win 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
The following is from a nationally known ballistics expert and a Lt. Commander in the Navy. He has tested thousands of rounds for both military and le purposes. He does not have any interest in the sale of some of the ammo he recommends. His purpose is to make sure le/military have the most robust ammo handgun round available for their safety. His name is Dr. Gary Roberts. Believe it or not.
"As written in numerous previous threads about older bullet designs the Hydra-Shok was state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is generally significantly superior to the older designs. The following .40 S&W loads have all demonstrated outstanding performance:"
Speer 155 gr JHP (53961)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Fed 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Fed 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Rem 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer 180 gr JHP (53966)
Win 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Thank you Retired. That is exactly what the ATK rep said when I asked about the Hydra Shok. I too am tired of everyone running to get Hydra Shoks like they are the magic bullet. There are many other decent (better?) rounds out there. I was not impressed at all with seeing results from gelatin testing. FMJ would have expaned about as much. It's too bad there isn't a "magic bullet" out there so we wouldn't have these discussions. I just have to agree with you that the Hydra Shok isn't what everyone makes it out to be.
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5,688 Posts
Your welcome 87-51, thank you for the kind words. I have read posts from some people on this site (and I mean the whole site) say things like, "all hollow points perform the same, it doesn't matter what you use, hydrashoks are a great round, denim, who wears 4 layers of denim."
No evidence is cited, no facts, just statements and anecdotal references from a friend or an uncle. I am not an expert, I'm not even a newbie ballistics person. That's why I go to www.tacticalforums.com, www.ammolab.com and similar sites. These are where the experts reside; the ballisticians, wound experts (read trauma doctors who see bullet wounds every day), engineers, physicists. They do the tests on the various bullets in use today and provide scientific results; not some of the claptrap I've read here.
I will continue to read those sites to gain as much info as possible so I can be assured of carrying the best defensive round I can that I may need (God forbid) to save me or mine. The minority here that have the same attitude about ammo choices that Captain Ray has about everyone who is not an ultraconservative can continue in their ignorance. I'm done , rant off.
No evidence is cited, no facts, just statements and anecdotal references from a friend or an uncle. I am not an expert, I'm not even a newbie ballistics person. That's why I go to www.tacticalforums.com, www.ammolab.com and similar sites. These are where the experts reside; the ballisticians, wound experts (read trauma doctors who see bullet wounds every day), engineers, physicists. They do the tests on the various bullets in use today and provide scientific results; not some of the claptrap I've read here.
I will continue to read those sites to gain as much info as possible so I can be assured of carrying the best defensive round I can that I may need (God forbid) to save me or mine. The minority here that have the same attitude about ammo choices that Captain Ray has about everyone who is not an ultraconservative can continue in their ignorance. I'm done , rant off.
Retired, it's nice to know there's someone else out there that has some of the same opinions as I do. Like you I spend a lot of time searching for that "best defensive round". To a certain extent, the "anything goes" mentality is true. Something is better than nothing. But why not have something that is better than others? I'm still in that searching phase and like I said there isn't a "magic bullet", but I want the next best thing (which isn't the Hydra Shok IMO). Thank you again for your input.
i have gone thorugh a few boxes of black hills 165g exp(gold dot). black hills states 1150fps for this round. it has as much recoil as most 180g performance rounds i have tried. $25 from cabelas.com . decent weight and pretty respectable velocity w/ gold dot bullet.
i have fired the 165g fed hydrashocks. the low velocity stated seems to fit because these seem real mild in recoil.
i have fired the 165g fed hydrashocks. the low velocity stated seems to fit because these seem real mild in recoil.
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115 Posts
From FBI and RCMP tests. In gel through heavy cloth:
165 HS 14.5 inches/.60 caliber
155 HS 14.7/.60
180 HS 19.8/.59
165 Golden Saber 16.3/.61
165 Gold Dot 15.8/.60
.38 Special 158 +P SWCHP
3 inch bbl, 13.8/.58
165 HS 14.5 inches/.60 caliber
155 HS 14.7/.60
180 HS 19.8/.59
165 Golden Saber 16.3/.61
165 Gold Dot 15.8/.60
.38 Special 158 +P SWCHP
3 inch bbl, 13.8/.58
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1,955 Posts
What are the odds you will have to pull your firearm to defend yourself?
OK, now factor in the odds that, after pulling your firearm, that you will have to shoot.
OK, now factor in hit probability (shots fired as opposed to shots that hit your target) while shooting in a high stress scenario, where your target might be shooting back.
Now factor in the "Superior Performance Margin" that your new "Magic Bullet" has over the Federal Hydra-Shok.
Odds are, it's not going to matter what friggin' bullet you are shooting.
What good is it going to do you if your newly discovered "Magic Bullet" doesn't feed properly in your gun? What good is it going to do you if the recoil from your newly discovered "Magic Bullet" bucks so hard, you can't quickly make accurate follow-up shots? What good is it going to do you if your newly discovered "Magic Bullet" uses a powder that creates a bright muzzle flash, ruining your night vision? What good is it going to do you if you spend all your money on 20 rounds of ammo, but never shoot it until you need to, and find out any of this information?
Test any ammo you consider carrying. Run a large enough amount through your gun to ensure that it will feed, fire and extract in an acceptable manner. It is up to you to decide what that amount is.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If all I had was 135 grain Hydra-Shoks, I'd be ok with that. There is ammo I prefer over it, but just because it's not the newest ammo on the block, I won't bash on it. I won't tell you that all hollow-point ammo performs the same, but I will tell you that if it functions well in your gun, you should consider it. Functionality is infinitely more important than performance. There are a lot of dead and maimed folks that would argue for the effectiveness of the Hydra-Shok line.
OK, now factor in the odds that, after pulling your firearm, that you will have to shoot.
OK, now factor in hit probability (shots fired as opposed to shots that hit your target) while shooting in a high stress scenario, where your target might be shooting back.
Now factor in the "Superior Performance Margin" that your new "Magic Bullet" has over the Federal Hydra-Shok.
Odds are, it's not going to matter what friggin' bullet you are shooting.
What good is it going to do you if your newly discovered "Magic Bullet" doesn't feed properly in your gun? What good is it going to do you if the recoil from your newly discovered "Magic Bullet" bucks so hard, you can't quickly make accurate follow-up shots? What good is it going to do you if your newly discovered "Magic Bullet" uses a powder that creates a bright muzzle flash, ruining your night vision? What good is it going to do you if you spend all your money on 20 rounds of ammo, but never shoot it until you need to, and find out any of this information?
Test any ammo you consider carrying. Run a large enough amount through your gun to ensure that it will feed, fire and extract in an acceptable manner. It is up to you to decide what that amount is.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If all I had was 135 grain Hydra-Shoks, I'd be ok with that. There is ammo I prefer over it, but just because it's not the newest ammo on the block, I won't bash on it. I won't tell you that all hollow-point ammo performs the same, but I will tell you that if it functions well in your gun, you should consider it. Functionality is infinitely more important than performance. There are a lot of dead and maimed folks that would argue for the effectiveness of the Hydra-Shok line.
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3,238 Posts
I have herd you should never have trigger work on a carry gun also never carry reloads.the rumor I herd is you could be accused of firing unintentionally or being charge with excessive force due to charge of your {hot load}hand load. I personally think it is all a huge load of crap.
Yes I have a 4# trigger and yes I carry 155 grain gold dots and yes if I draw and shoot someone it will be the one I intended to and if I end up in front of a jury .I WILL BE ALIVE TO TELL MY GRAND CHILDREN :twisted:
Yes I have a 4# trigger and yes I carry 155 grain gold dots and yes if I draw and shoot someone it will be the one I intended to and if I end up in front of a jury .I WILL BE ALIVE TO TELL MY GRAND CHILDREN :twisted:
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1,573 Posts
Carry the load that is-
a) most reliable in your gun
b) shoots to point-of-aim in your gun
c) after that, worry about bullet performance
I wouldn't be afraid to carry Rem/UMC 180 flat-point FMJ, for that matter.
Since the 180 grain bullet is essentially what the .40 was designed around, I'd bet that you will have better function sticking with that bullet weight. We have had good luck with the 180 HydraShok in several police shootings locally.
a) most reliable in your gun
b) shoots to point-of-aim in your gun
c) after that, worry about bullet performance
I wouldn't be afraid to carry Rem/UMC 180 flat-point FMJ, for that matter.
Since the 180 grain bullet is essentially what the .40 was designed around, I'd bet that you will have better function sticking with that bullet weight. We have had good luck with the 180 HydraShok in several police shootings locally.
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