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Discussion Starter #1
everyone seems to have a different take on this. I am in the process of building a pistol and wanted to see some other opinions.

one group claims that the lower has to be registered as a pistol lower to build a pistol.

the other group claims that the manufacturer doesnt designate and as long as you received the stripped lower, designate it as a pistol on the 4473 form, and a rifle upper was never put on it is ok to build a pistol with it.

Im really at a loss here. I have the upper ready, but am waiting on the lower.
 

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You're living in the past.

The new 4473 has a check box for "receiver".


Check it, take it home and have fun.



If you want to read the law, it doesn't specify anything but that a "virgin receiver" can be made into a rifle or pistol.

"Pistol" markings on the receiver are not legally required, but are a CYA measure (and money making measure on the part of the manufacturers). Read the law yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
im not living in the past, im trying to get some opinions. I will readily admit that i dont know.
 

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im not living in the past, im trying to get some opinions. I will readily admit that i dont know.
Opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them, and they're not always correct.

You only need a receiver that hasn't previously been built into a rifle.
* No special markings needed.
* No need to have the manufacturer mark it or log it as anything special.
* No need to have the FFL transfer it to you as a pistol.

October 1, 1992


Firearms Technical Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Mass. Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20226

Dear Sirs:

The Greensboro, NC BATF Compliance Office suggested that I write to
you for information on the following point.

I am interested on whether it is possible to have a commercially
manufactured rifle receiver changed to be legally considered to be a handgun
receiver, and how this can be done. The Compliance Office said that this
might be possible via a "Letter of Determination", but advised me to write
to you about the criteria and procedures.

For example, if a person has a rifle receiver and wishes to have it
built into a rifle-caliber handgun suitable for steel silhouette target
shooting, comparable to the bolt action Remington XP-100 handgun. I
understand that the serial number of this receiver is recorded as being for a
rifle. Could this person have this receiver's serial number considered to be
a handgun receiver? If so, what procedures and paperwork would be
necessary.

Sincerely,

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Oct 29 1992
Dear Mr. XXXXX:

This refers to your letter of October 1, 1992, in which you inquire
about the legality of manufacturing a handgun which utilizes a rifle
type receiver.

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 # 5845(a)(4), the National Firearms Act (NFA),
defines the term "firearm" to include a weapon made from a rifle if
such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches
or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.

Utilizing the receiver of an existing rifle for the purposes of
manufacturing a handgun would constitute the making of a firearm as
defined above. Individuals desiring to make such a firearm must first
submit an ATF Form 1, Application To Make And Register a Firearm and
pay the applicable $200 making tax.

If an individual were to obtain a rifle type receiver that had not
previously been utilized in the assembly of a rifle, a handgun could be
made and not be subject to the provisions of the NFA.
Verification
must be obtained from the manufacturer of the receiver to establish
its authenticity.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we may
be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely your,
(signed)
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
Original
 

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everyone seems to have a different take on this. I am in the process of building a pistol and wanted to see some other opinions.

one group claims that the lower has to be registered as a pistol lower to build a pistol.

the other group claims that the manufacturer doesnt designate and as long as you received the stripped lower, designate it as a pistol on the 4473 form, and a rifle upper was never put on it is ok to build a pistol with it.

Im really at a loss here. I have the upper ready, but am waiting on the lower.
This might be outdated, but I doubt it ... Everything I have ever read from the ATF says if you want a pistol, it MUST be built on a "receiver that was made and logged into the manufacturers book as a pistol".
In order to legally build an AR type pistol, per Federal Law, you MUST use a receiver that was made and logged into the manufacturers book as a pistol. You may not simply “convert” a regular AR receiver into a pistol, to do so is a violation of Federal Law. Some unknowing (or unscrupulous) gun dealers will incorrectly tell you that they can “register” or “log” an AR lower on the Federal ATF Form #4473 (The big form you fill out at the dealer when you buy a gun). The “4473” is a record of transfer, NOT a record of manufacturer or change in type of weapon. Marking the 4473 as “pistol” when in fact a “rifle” receiver is being transferred is a violation of Federal Law. If you want an AR pistol, you need to buy a properly built, logged and transferred pistol receiver.
SOURCE
My question about this subjects gray area -
Rifle, SBR or Pistol question
 

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Opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them, and they're not always correct.

You only need a receiver that hasn't previously been built into a rifle.
* No special markings needed.
* No need to have the manufacturer mark it or log it as anything special.
* No need to have the FFL transfer it to you as a pistol.

Original
1992 is pretty old information !!

I'd write the ATF and ask them if I wanted to be sure.
 

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1992 is pretty old information !!

I'd write the ATF and ask them if I wanted to be sure.
... but if you look up the law referenced in the letter, the law hasn't changed.

I'll suggest here what I suggested in AZXD's other post.

Visit arfcom and ask there. They've been asked this thousands of times and have links to the laws (since you won't take my info as "valid").


Guys, remember: The ATF doesn't make the law, it 'inteprets' it. This is why you get contradictory information all the time, because when folks write letters, the ATF sometimes writes a completely different "interpretation" back to them.

Again, I say "read the law yourself".
 

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This might be outdated, but I doubt it ... Everything I have ever read from the ATF says if you want a pistol, it MUST be built on a "receiver that was made and logged into the manufacturers book as a pistol".

In order to legally build an AR type pistol, per Federal Law, you MUST use a receiver that was made and logged into the manufacturers book as a pistol. You may not simply “convert” a regular AR receiver into a pistol, to do so is a violation of Federal Law. Some unknowing (or unscrupulous) gun dealers will incorrectly tell you that they can “register” or “log” an AR lower on the Federal ATF Form #4473 (The big form you fill out at the dealer when you buy a gun). The “4473” is a record of transfer, NOT a record of manufacturer or change in type of weapon. Marking the 4473 as “pistol” when in fact a “rifle” receiver is being transferred is a violation of Federal Law. If you want an AR pistol, you need to buy a properly built, logged and transferred pistol receiver.
SOURCE
My question about this subjects gray area -
Rifle, SBR or Pistol question
Respectfully, AZXD, your SOURCE link is wrong.

It is the opinion of Anvil Arms, and not the law.

If you're gonna link information, link to the actual law ( as I have ).
 

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... but if you look up the law referenced in the letter, the law hasn't changed.

I'll suggest here what I suggested in AZXD's other post.

Visit arfcom and ask there. They've been asked this thousands of times and have links to the laws (since you won't take my info as "valid").


Guys, remember: The ATF doesn't make the law, it 'inteprets' it. This is why you get contradictory information all the time, because when folks write letters, the ATF sometimes writes a completely different "interpretation" back to them.

Again, I say "read the law yourself".
Respectfully, AZXD, your SOURCE link is wrong.

It is the opinion of Anvil Arms, and not the law.

If you're gonna link information, link to the actual law ( as I have ).
The last time I read anything about manufacturing any pistol at the ATF website it said exactly what Anvil Arms says on their website.

Concerning your link ... it is a link to a text file being held at Carnegie Mellon University .... How about a link to the ATF website as a source ??

I can't seem to find what I'm looking for on their site, and the last time it took forever to find the exact wording ... Got an ATF link ??

Also, I'm not trying to argue with you ... But I've heard all kinds of horror stories over the years that always equate to exactly what you have said ... They interpret.

Side story - BATF raids gun-kit manufacturer
Extenuating circumstances because the guy was a prior convicted felon ... But still, it makes me wonder about all the kit guns being sold.

Interpretation sucks and seems to be used against people.
 
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