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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is there a benefit to using the +p 45 ACP or is it for shorter those shorter barrel .45's like my old 3" Kimber UC II? The local gun shop I buy ammo from is pretty limited in 45 sd ammo, it has Remington 230gr, Winchester PDX1 and the +p rounds.
 

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I can't say that I really know. I never considered them. However, the +P jacks up the velocity and penetration depth of the round. It also has higher internal pressures so you need to make sure that your pistol is designed for them.

One should also consider that it comes with a bit more kick in recoil. Don't know that I would want to fire them in a short barrel .45.....
 

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Most handguns are designed to withstand +P rounds... but are not recommended as normal range rounds due to increased wear and tear on the weapon, just used to test reliability in your particular weapon and for SD, which is what they are designed for anyway.
 

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imho, +p out of short barreled guns is overrated. You give up far too much control over your accuracy than you gain for velocity. But that is just my opinion, you need to try it for yourself. if we're talking full size guns, then you might have a case for going +p but in a small gun, I don't see the point. if you want more power....go to a bigger caliber.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I get the +p in smaller rounds but still not the .45 ACP as it is already a decent sized round in 230gr...which is the +p I saw. They have 200gr +p as well or was it 180gr?? Whatever, I'll google it.
 

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Actually, you won't gain much, if anything with a +P round in a short barrel...besides muzzle flash and recoil, that is. The bullet won't spend enough time in the bore to get an advantage over a standard velocity load.

I'd go with the PDX-1's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Actually, you won't gain much, if anything with a +P round in a short barrel...besides muzzle flash and recoil, that is. The bullet won't spend enough time in the bore to get an advantage over a standard velocity load.

I'd go with the PDX-1's.
That's what I found as well, no need for it. The 230gr is heavy enough to do the job...the only 45 I have is my XDc with the 4" barrel.
 

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I'll only run +P's out of 4.25 or better barrel lengths, in any caliber...but I really don't run +P's any more. No need when quality JHP heavyweights in any given caliber tend to perfrom better than an overdriven lightweight.
 

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Actually, you won't gain much, if anything with a +P round in a short barrel...besides muzzle flash and recoil, that is. The bullet won't spend enough time in the bore to get an advantage over a standard velocity load.

I'd go with the PDX-1's.

+1 Win PDX-1 are my EDC round for my XD45c
 

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Winchester Ranger T rounds, they will do the job!:)
 

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It seems that this has been answered, so I'll just third, forth, and fifth the previous responses.

Choose well, and there is no real need for +P ammo ... And I'm a PDX fan, also.

Caliber doesn't matter ... The PDX line is a good performer in all available calibers.
 

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The US ammo standards as established by SAAMI are currently (effectively) driven downward by fear of the threat of liability. The dimensions, pressures, and complete specifications are submitted for testing by the manufacturers and are purposely fixed at extremely low statistical probability of any failure problem. Realistic safety margins are developed by testing and then widened by lawyers. The current standards for most all rounds are well below the safe potential and usually below the original round developers intended performance levels.
The commercial +P pistol loads are all still well below the SAAMI published upper limits, just to have a safety line the mfgs can all hide behind (well everybody else does it, so we are not out of line with established data - defense).
Usually, the +P loaded rounds get the cartridge almost back to the developers original design specs. In Europe, where frivolous lawsuits are not as common as here, the manufacturer's specifications submitted to their version of SAAMI generally run at about a 10% higher established safe pressure - and still well within adequate safety margins.
So US standard ammo is already fixed at what would normally be considered a low powered load for much of the world. The US +P ammo is still around 10% below European standard pressure ammo.

Fortunately, the US bullet manufacturer's are mostly able to design bullets that have marginally adequate performance at the low power of the powder loads they feel safe using. This seems counter productive on SD ammo that should be designed toward maximum performance. If you cannot handle the recoil of what should be the standard load potential you should go to a smaller caliber for better control. (not meant as derogatory but as reasonable step down advice). The small amount of extra in a +P - using the same bullet as the std load, gives a better margin of having ther bullet perform as designed in a non-standard shooting angle. For defensive loads this is 230 gr +P in 45acp, 180-200gr +P in 40SW, and min 147gr +p in 9mm or 147gr in 357SIG.
By the same token, the higher power can be carried too far depending on the intended use of the ammo. A 230gr FN hard cast in 45Super may be good for hunting medium thick skin animals where max penetration is needed. But a 230gr JHP in 45Super really gives no advantage for SD ammo performance. This is a case of going beyond the original specification intent of the 45acp even if it can be fired from many 45acp handguns. (Being in an actually a different 'caliber' design than 45acp, it does not fit into a 45acp +P discussion)

Should add that firearms designed and manufactured 'over there' are built to safely withstand the higher working presures of European ammo. This includes the XD and XDm series pistols as well as all the Glocks (40SW root problem was unanticipated out-of-spec ammo pressure problem and that was resolved by a design change) and many other firearms. Yes, higher pressures will wear a pistol a bit faster than low powered ammo, but this is not a problem most shooters will ever encounter unless firing multiple thousands of full power SD rounds. (Unless they purchased a real cheaply made pistol that cannot handle full power ammo and are usually labeled as being limited in ammo selection). Just like the XD and XDm magazines:which should really be labeled as compact or full capacity mags not high capacity mags, ammo should actually be classified as low powered (what the mfgs like to call standard) and as full or standard power (now labeled as +P). The labels are selected for advertizing impact. Because in the US nobody but competition shooters wants to be using 'low or partial power' ammo when they can shoot regular or high power labeled ammo. McDonalds sells regular, large, and super sized drinks, not small, medium and large. Labeling rules.
{or it may be an influence of my shingles pain suppression meds working
More than a three word story
 

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I thought that the wikipedia page had a pretty good summary: .45 ACP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many opinions about it. Some will even swear that a 180 Gr is a better defense round than a 230gr. I look at the labels on the ammo, and pick the one with the highest velocity 230 gr HP for carry. Lately I carry Federal Hydrashocks and Buffalo Bore +P. I've got a box or two of Hornady 180 grain mixed in there by being distracted at Sportsmans. Sometimes though I'm too lazy to reload the mag after the range, so I just keep Winchester white box loaded. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. Even if they are just wounded, in my opinion a hit to 80% of the body, with any .45 round will incapacitate most people long enough for me to get away, or finish the job with the 7-12 rds remaining.
 

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I thought that the wikipedia page had a pretty good summary: .45 ACP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many opinions about it. Some will even swear that a 180 Gr is a better defense round than a 230gr. I look at the labels on the ammo, and pick the one with the highest velocity 230 gr HP for carry. Lately I carry Federal Hydrashocks and Buffalo Bore +P. I've got a box or two of Hornady 180 grain mixed in there by being distracted at Sportsmans. Sometimes though I'm too lazy to reload the mag after the range, so I just keep Winchester white box loaded. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. Even if they are just wounded, in my opinion a hit to 80% of the body, with any .45 round will incapacitate most people long enough for me to get away, or finish the job with the 7-12 rds remaining.
Yeah...no.

A .45 isn't a phaser; shot placement is critical with any caliber. And while the nice thing about .45 is that it doesn't need expansion as much as lesser calibers, it's still a good thing to have. HydraShok is a great round versus a naked opponent, but once it hits cloth...she don't like to expand.

And the only 185gr .45 bullet worth consideration is the DPX.

My pistols are stoked with 230gr Ranger-T, HST, or Gold Dots...because they all like those rounds, and they all have a proven track record.
 

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Yeah...no.
HydraShok is a great round versus a naked opponent, but once it hits cloth...she don't like to expand.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
So explain to me why this particular brand of hollow point doesn't expand after it passes through cotton. :D

I for one would like to hear the science behind that.

And no one said it was a phaser that would kill no matter where you hit the target. Go ahead and whip out your dictionary and look up the words incapacitate, effective, wound, defense and kill and start over.
 

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I like the rangers and the bonded pxd 1 BOTH are the same bullet just called different names and BOTH are the same as the old "black talon" ammo just no black coating. Only difference that I noticed is the rangers are brass cased and the pdx rounds are plated.
 

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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
So explain to me why this particular brand of hollow point doesn't expand after it passes through cotton. :D

I for one would like to hear the science behind that.

And no one said it was a phaser that would kill no matter where you hit the target. Go ahead and whip out your dictionary and look up the words incapacitate, effective, wound, defense and kill and start over.
Hollowpoints only expand when they hit a liquid or semi-liquid medium. Hydraulic pressure pushes against the sides of the cavity, pushing it outward, causing the bullet to expand.

Cloth will plug the cavity, preventing or retarding expansion.

And before you try and say that the post in the middle of a HydraShok prevents this...it doesn't. The post is there to force more liquid against the cavity walls...but when it hits cloth, the cloth hangs up on the post, preventing liquid from entering the cavity, and causing it to act just like a FMJ. And a little proof to back this up: http://firearmstactical.com/test_data/45acp/fed45-230hs-g30.htm

Modern JHP's like Gold Dot, HST, Ranger-T, DPX and a few others are designed to still function after punching through heavy cloth. HydraShok is of the older generation of JHP's which are regularly defeated by it.

And you're the one who said a .45 hit in "80% of their body" would be a stopper...and I'm sayin, that ain't so.
 
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