what do you consider anticipating recoil?

1873 Views 16 Replies 13 Participants Last post by dyferant, Mar 1, 2005

therooster

Discussion Starter · Feb 28, 2005

I and a few others from the board went to the range last weekend. i learned a few things about my shooting and formulated a hypothesis.

what do you consider anticipating recoil?...

i KNOW i dont anticipate recoil (well... there are a few accidents). i was watching a guy next to me shooting and noticed he was shooting all over the place, but mostly low. i watched him for a bit and noticed (he had a dud) right when he pulled the triger he pushed forward hard and the nose of the gun dropped. so i thought to myself "he is anticipating". i resume shooting, taking my time... trying to train my hands and fingers for a good smooth pull. what happens next is odd, i too get a dud. (read this part carfully) i pulled the trigger and AFTER the hammer droped i droped the nose of the gun.

i'm trying to tell myself that it was in anticipation of reaquiring the target, not anticipation of recoil since the hammer had already droped before the nose. does this sound right to anyone? does it make sense that there is a difference between droping the nose of the gun durring trigger pull as opposed to after hammer drop? or am i just lieing to myself?

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Lumberjack98

· #2 · Feb 28, 2005

Hey, wait a minute, I was the guy next to you.

What are you saying?

Man, you could have blasted me some other way...like "Some guy was shooting terribly and I couldn't believe it".....but "the guy next to me"...Damn!!

Just kidding. I'd be interested in reading the responses to this as I've notieced the same thing in my shooting. Good question.

therooster

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 28, 2005

LOL.... no, it wasnt you that i'm talking about. it was actually the older gentleman to the left of you.

bd

· #4 · Feb 28, 2005

We used to do drills where we would let a buddy load, or leave unloaded our pistols, out of our sight, so that we would not know the status. When we would step to the line to fire, the gun might go off or not. We could then judge each other's anticipation.
'Course that's kinda hard to do with a gun that has a loaded chamber indicator, but mine fell out of my HS2000 and I really haven't missed it.
If you can spend part of your range sessions doing this drill it will help a bunch.

bd

XD_Dan

· #5 · Feb 28, 2005

therooster said:
LOL.... no, it wasnt you that i'm talking about. it was actually the older gentleman to the left of you.

Whew...for a minute there I thought you were talking about me. I was right of you. I was reading this thinking, "did I have a dud?"
I have a tendancy to anticipate sometimes. Especially when I get in a hurry.
I think snap caps are a great tool for that. Perhaps that is why you were asking about them.

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zukiphile

· #6 · Feb 28, 2005

therooster said:
i'm trying to tell myself that it was in anticipation of reaquiring the target, not anticipation of recoil since the hammer had already droped before the nose. does this sound right to anyone? does it make sense that there is a difference between droping the nose of the gun durring trigger pull as opposed to after hammer drop? or am i just lieing to myself?

You are describing a classic flinch. You know you are flinching in anticipation of recoil if you do it whether or not there is any recoil. It can't be for target re-acquisition if there wasn't any recoil to bump you off target.

DigMe

· #7 · Feb 28, 2005

Rooster,

Pretty much any time you nose the gun down while in the process of pulling the trigger you're anticipating the recoil. It may seem like it's after the hammer drops but it probably started before or as the hammer was dropping.

The best way to get rid of any movement like that is next time you're out there with friends do exercises where you have them load a mag with either a single live round or a snap cap and then chamber it. Then hand you the gun and you aim and fire. Doing this for a while will help get you used to the surprise of the discharge and not anticipating it. You really notice it when it's just the snap cap. Another thing you can do is have him load several rounds with a snap cap mixed in randomly.

Also, just generally doing dry fire practice helps.

brad cook

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[TASF]Overkill

· #8 · Feb 28, 2005

Sometimes it scares the hell out of you when you pull the trigger and nothing happens. You're concentrating so hard on not anticipating the shot, that when there is not shot, it scares you.

If you're flinching when you pull the trigger, that's anticipating. If you're flinching after you hear the firing pin drop, that's no big deal. It probably isn't happening when you actually shoot, and it wouldn't effect the bullet impact anyway.

hobocircus

· #9 · Feb 28, 2005

therooster

he had a dud.........I too had a dud

What are the odds of 2 "duds" at the same range? I havn't had a dud in 25 years! and the dud I had was cheap war surplus ammo from like Angola in 53!

Don't tell me they are selling you that same stuff at your range?!

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therooster

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 28, 2005

hobocircus said:
therooster

he had a dud.........I too had a dud

Click to expand...

What are the odds of 2 "duds" at the same range? I havn't had a dud in 25 years! and the dud I had was cheap war surplus ammo from like Angola in 53!

Don't tell me they are selling you that same stuff at your range?!

well, technically neither of us had a "dud". i just said that to save explanation. lets just say we both had instances where we thought the gun would fire but didnt.

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Bobby Lee

· #11 · Feb 28, 2005

zukiphile said:
You are describing a classic flinch. You know you are flinching in anticipation of recoil if you do it whether or not there is any recoil. It can't be for target re-acquisition if there wasn't any recoil to bump you off target.

That is exactly correct. Everyone does this to some degree and you will never be a good shooter untill you learn to control this.

This is just the normal human reaction to the recoil and the noise and muzzle blast.

Even some of the best shooters on the planet sometimes catch themselves doing this. The difference between them and most shooters is the fact that they have developed some mental process that overcomes the natural reaction to flinch and it works for them most of the time.

You can develop this and learn not to flinch and as long as you practice on regular basis you will do well. Stop shooting for a while and your flinch will come back.

I know how I had to overcome this when I started shooting accross the course in highpower using a Garand years ago but it is something I would find hard to put into words so someone else could understand.

It involves using a certain type trigger control where the gun fires before your mind has a chance to cause a flinch.

I know that may not make sense to some but if there is a few good pistol shooters here that do well in IDPA or bullseye pistol perhaps they can explain it better than I can.

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hobocircus

· #12 · Feb 28, 2005

lets just say we both had instances where we thought the gun would fire but didnt.

oh I see. Like when the action locks open at the final shot and you pull the trigger again? I've been shooting since the 1970s and can now feel the difference. A good example is when shooting a AR-15. That last shot seems to "pop" out and you can feel the bolt lock back. "Poomp!" :shock:

bobo35

· #13 · Feb 28, 2005

good answers all...well most.

I used to teach firearms for over 20 years. One of my little games I would play with my students who had this problem was to tell them to visualize standing infront of a bid King Cobra :!: I would tell them that they had to pull the trigger ( dry fire ) in order to not disturb the sight picture and they would not get bit. ( visualization )It cured a lot of people of this along with the other drills. Although there were some that insisted they had to jerk the triger and refused to be broken of the habit.

Best to you in your shooting.

TomSwift

· #14 · Feb 28, 2005

There's another flinch that hasn't been mentioned yet and I really just discovered it myself about two weeks ago. Blinking your eyes! That momentary event in anticipation of the blast was throwing me way off. When I concentrated on keeping them open through the shot, my accuracy improved dramatically. I was watching Shooting USA this weekend with the tips section with Doug Koening. He was demonstrating target acquistion shooting multiple targets. The close up was on his face so you could follow his eyes through the 3 targets and 6 shots. No blinks from beginning to end.

One more thing for me to concentrate on.

Bobby Lee

· #15 · Mar 1, 2005

If your focus is on the front sight when the shot breaks you can call the shot. You know exactly where it went before you look at the target.

Front sight focus is one of the most important things to learn is both pistol and rifle shooting.

wJAKE19

· #16 · Mar 1, 2005

I am relitivly new to shooting, I have been deer hunting for many years but thats different, on a deer there is about a 16"x16" kill zone, a bullseye is only an inch or two.
I feel my self pushing into the gun while slow fireing, mostly when I am shooting the "mule like" TC Encore or Contender, and I squeez the XD pulling the shot to the left.
I have been shooting more lately, and trying to train my brain, any hints will be well appreciated.
thanks for the great threads.

dyferant

· #17 · Mar 1, 2005

wew, where to start. Humm, if your group is scattered all over the place you are probebly flinching. Also have someone watch your eyes, if you blink or close your eyes when the shot breaks your flinching. If your practicing slow fire there should be no movement of your sights if the gun fails to fire, if you rapid firing your eyes shoud be open so you will see the sights LIFT from the taget when the shot breaks ( calling your shots ), if they dip when the shot breaks your flinching ( BTW I have found it very difficult to flinch with my eyes open , and I am calling my shots ). 8)

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