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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have mounted two Nikon scopes in the past year or so and used a Wheeler leveling system I got for under 40 bucks on advice of my friend/range instructor. It is the one that puts a clamp on the BBL. to enable you to first index the bbl. to the receiver and then the scope to the bbl. Two steps to really accurate leveling. Works great and gets very good accuracy relative to "eyeballing".

At the range this week a friend with a .22 Magnum target rifle (good , expensive relatively, model) and a no name scope the local GS sold and mounted for him , was having fits trying to zero it at fifty yards.

I let him shoot my 10/22 with a NIKON 3-9 Rimfire scope and he was dead on with it. He then got very tight groups from my AR, also with Nikon scope.

When I told him I had mounted both scopes using the Wheeler leveling system he said the gunshop surely used a good system to mount it since they had charged him extra to do it. (a clue in itself, IMHO).

I volunteered to take it home and check it using my tools. He came with me and we saw that the scope was not even close to level with the top of the receiver because the bbl. had not been properly indexed to the receiver in the first place OR they just threw it on and guessed. Incidentally, they hadn't zeroed the scope for him either.

Back to the range and evern with the cheap scope, his rifle was dead on at 50 yards after I levelled his scope for him and he zeroed it . It was only a couple inches off out of the chute anyway because they had obviously not touched the adjustment from the factory and he hadn't been able to do much damage before realizing his inputs weren't going in the direction they should.

Want it right? Learn how and do it yourself or at least use somebody you know will do it right.;)
 

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I have mounted two Nikon scopes in the past year or so and used a Wheeler leveling system I got for under 40 bucks on advice of my friend/range instructor. It is the one that puts a clamp on the BBL. to enable you to first index the bbl. to the receiver and then the scope to the bbl. Two steps to really accurate leveling. Works great and gets very good accuracy relative to "eyeballing".
I give up....your reference to bbl....what is a bbl?
 

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Yeah I just got a .308 for a present and took it to the gun store to see if they would bore sight it. Figured I'd save a few shells and get it pretty close and then just fine tune it. Took it home and shot it went and checked the 1x1 foot target and not a single hole on it. So I had to get a larger target found the shots and had it zeroed in about 6 shots at a 100 yards. Shouldn't have waisted my time and just done it myself.
 

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I give up....your reference to bbl....what is a bbl?
prolly the barrel (bbl is abbreviation for the unit of measure).

The only time I have ever had a problem getting a scope dialed in was once when a buddy mounted his .22 scope rings opposite each other and didn't bring any tools with him. The scope was visibly off from the reciever. Not enough adjustment in the scope to hit more than 6" right at 25 yrds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I give up....your reference to bbl....what is a bbl?

Sorry, barrel. IF the barrel and the flat top are referenced to each other, you can then use the level barrel to index the top of the scope to it. IF the center line of your barrel is not level with the crosshairs of the
scope, you have a canted scope and zeroing adjustments are less accurate. How much? Depends on how far off and it is magnified the longer the distance.
 

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Already answered, but bbl is a common abbreviation to barrel. I knew what he was talking about. I'll be checking into that Wheeler leveling system.
 

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Sporting goods retailer gun counter employees' guide to mounting scopes:
1. put scope mount on receiver. tighten screws.
2. put rings on mount. Tighten screws.
3. put scope in rings and top half of rings on top of scope. Tighten screws.
4. Charge $20
 

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I gave up on gun store mounting too. Too many times their mount / bore site was way off. All I use is a $2 bubble level. Put the rifle on the bipod or rest and raise the rear. Put the bubble level on the top of the rail and zero. Mount the scope and put the bubble level on top of the elevation turret and adjust until zero. Verify using the top of a wall, line, etc.

I've probably done 10 scopes for rifles I've taken out past 800 yards. Takes 7-8 mins to mount, adust, set eye relief, etc.

Congrats OP. I use the Wheeler torque wrench and lapping tools. Good stuff.
 

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I guess I don't get the barrel indexing suggestion in this thread. When you mount a barrel on an AR, the indexing pin indexes the barrel. Unless you're using iron sights, whether the barrel is rotated a little makes no difference, anyhow.

For leveling scopes on ARs, I attach a level to the receiver rail. Then use a spirit level on the scope's turrets. Works for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I guess I don't get the barrel indexing suggestion in this thread. When you mount a barrel on an AR, the indexing pin indexes the barrel. Unless you're using iron sights, whether the barrel is rotated a little makes no difference, anyhow.

For leveling scopes on ARs, I attach a level to the receiver rail. Then use a spirit level on the scope's turrets. Works for me.
What you are indexing is the 12 o'clock point (top). Of the barrel so you know it's position relative to the flat top ( receiver), you. Then can level the top of the scope ( turret) to the barrel, ensuring it is level with (indexed) to the flat top. Easier to align them and faster than other methods. IT WORKS!
 

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What you are indexing is the 12 o'clock point (top). Of the barrel so you know it's position relative to the flat top ( receiver), you. Then can level the top of the scope ( turret) to the barrel, ensuring it is level with (indexed) to the flat top. Easier to align them and faster than other methods. IT WORKS!
The rotation or indexing of the barrel, as I mentioned previously, is irrelevant when using optics. You could cant the barrel 45*, relative to the receiver, and it wouldn't make any difference, if you're using optics. The scope only needs to be level relative to the flattop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The rotation or indexing of the barrel, as I mentioned previously, is irrelevant when using optics. You could cant the barrel 45*, relative to the receiver, and it wouldn't make any difference, if you're using optics. The scope only needs to be level relative to the flattop.
AND that is exactly what this set of levels does. The bbl. is only referenced because it has ALREADY been matched to the flat top. It is easier to see the level on the bbl. than on the flat top when aligning the bubble on the turret.

You are intent on the word "indexing" which, perhaps, I should not use (even though it is correct here) . We are not "indexing" the bbl. as to it's alignment in the receiver as when assembling, just to the point it is level with the flat top ONLY TO MAKE LEVELING THE TOP OF THE SCOPE EASIER TO SEE THE LEVELNESS OF. The people who designed the system "get it" as do I. I'll just go with that.

Anyway you want to slice it, if the centerline of the bbl. is level with the flat top, then the top of the scope will be level with the flat top IF matched to the level on the barrel..................simple really.

Maybe the PDF instructions will make it clearer than I can.

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/downloads/instructions/119050-prof-ret-level-system-instr.pdf
 

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AND that is exactly what this set of levels does. The bbl. is only referenced because it has ALREADY been matched to the flat top. It is easier to see the level on the bbl. than on the flat top when aligning the bubble on the turret.

You are intent on the word "indexing" which, perhaps, I should not use (even though it is correct here) . We are not "indexing" the bbl. as to it's alignment in the receiver as when assembling, just to the point it is level with the flat top ONLY TO MAKE LEVELING THE TOP OF THE SCOPE EASIER TO SEE THE LEVELNESS OF. The people who designed the system "get it" as do I. I'll just go with that.

Anyway you want to slice it, if the centerline of the bbl. is level with the flat top, then the top of the scope will be level with the flat top IF matched to the level on the barrel..................simple really.

Maybe the PDF instructions will make it clearer than I can.

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/downloads/instructions/119050-prof-ret-level-system-instr.pdf
Thanks for the clarification. I won't need to check out the pdf. You're right. "Indexing" was the fly in the ointment. I find the bubble level that attaches to the flattop rail to be pretty easy to see and should be more than adequate, when the scope is conformed to that level by a spirit level across the turret.
 

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I used the scopemounting kit and the leveling system by Wheeler for my Remington 700 SPS setup, works great

Basically you put a level on the flat top, and attach the other level on the barrel itself. Use the adjustment knobs on the barrel level to match the reading on the flattop. Now you can mount the scope, and put the flattop level on top of the scope, then match the reading on the barrel. So now the scope will be in correct alignment with the scope base level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the clarification. I won't need to check out the pdf. You're right. "Indexing" was the fly in the ointment. I find the bubble level that attaches to the flattop rail to be pretty easy to see and should be more than adequate, when the scope is conformed to that level by a spirit level across the turret.
Fair enough. Of course I also use it for rifles without AR style tops and it's advantages are more obvious.;)
 

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Fair enough. Of course I also use it for rifles without AR style tops and it's advantages are more obvious.;)
Yep. The method I described only works with AR flattops.
 

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Having looked at all the replies, I’d say there is some confusion and inaccuracies with some of the info as posted. Without going into each point and providing a very lengthy response about the posts I disagree with, instead I’d prefer to give you the “Cliff Notes” version as I see it and point you toward reference material.

When mounting optics it is important that the centerline of the bore vertically match the center of the scope, or more accurately, the erector system of the scope. You need to level the rifle and then level the scope. There are a number of ways of doing this, some more accurate than others.

A quality weapon using a Mil-Std 1913 or STANAG 2324 rail “should” provide a surface perpendicular to the bore in order to establish a bore axis level. However, if it isn’t it, it doesn’t matter as long as you have another means to check the bore axis.

Get the bore axis level, level the erector system, evenly torque down the scope, establish a baseline boresight and then head to the range to fine tune it.

As the discussion of the post was leveling a scope, the point to remember is if you introduce cant (or “beta” in engineering terms) to the bore vertical axis and use any type of aiming device that is displaced from the boreline (i.e. your scope), the point of impact will be low and in the direction of the cant.

To think of it another way, imagine that you have a pencil-sized laser device aimed at the wall and your eye is directly behind it. You can rotate the laser and POI will always equal POA. However, if you mounted an aiming device on to the laser 1.5 – 2.5” inches above it and parallel to the laser (your scope); when you rotate the laser your POA now describes an arc. This is why the bore and erector have to match each other during setup and shooting. As a side note, it is important that the sight line (difference btwn bore center and scope center) to be measured accurately in order for you to be able to dope your scope with accuracy and repeatability.

For more info, here are a few optics reference links. They will provide many techniques on leveling a scope and the dynamics of a canted scope or firing position.

1. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=19&page=1

2. http://usoptics.com/index.php?page=instructions (look at erector centering)

3. Cant Errors - Long range shooting

4. Shooting References (look at "Optically Checking Rifle Scopes")
 

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Noob question here on mounting scopes. Does it really matter if the scope is level with the rifle as long as the scope is sighted-in and your hitting all shots within a satisfactory circumference? I understand the scope Should be level because I noticed some people hold the rifle level when shooting and others seem to cant the top of the rifle to the right when shooting, especially if no scope is involved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Noob question here on mounting scopes. Does it really matter if the scope is level with the rifle as long as the scope is sighted-in and your hitting all shots within a satisfactory circumference? I understand the scope Should be level because I noticed some people hold the rifle level when shooting and others seem to cant the top of the rifle to the right when shooting, especially if no scope is involved.
IF the scope is level and is canted WITH THE RIFLE all is OK. However if the scope isn't level relative the top of the chamber (flattop assumining THAT is level with the top of the chamber) your adjustments will be different than what you have dialed in. The result of a scope being mounted out of level means there is a skewed relationship between infput to the turrets and result on the target caused by the crosshairs being out of proper alignment with the center of the bbl./chamber
 
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