[NightTrainHD]

Please move if this is in the wrong section.
Saw this on the news this morning.
Raw: Masked men rob Houston Waffle House, customers | khou.com Houston
Seems three guys ran in and robbed customers at a waffle house. Do not know if I would draw or not. What wouldbyou do?
My question is, wouldnthis have happened if more people carried,open or concealed?

 

[nlghthawk]

The first thing I would be thinking about would be what would it look like to the robbers to start reaching for a gun. They most likely coming in with guns drawn and already have you at a disadvantage. Getting a gun out in a way as not to look obvious may not be that easy and if you don't practice drawing it could be very clumsy.

Its something to ponder....

 

[NightTrainHD]

I totally agree. Think it is one of those situations that you would have to be in to decide what to do. So many variables to consider. Just wondering if say, ten of the people in there were armed would the outcome be different. If they drew that is.

 

[cz75luver]

I totally agree. Think it is one of those situations that you would have to be in to decide what to do. So many variables to consider. Just wondering if say, ten of the people in there were armed would the outcome be different. If they drew that is.

This.

 

[ron mexico75]

Absolutely disgusting. I think since there were 3 of them and as fast as it happened and it being such a small place those pig thug cowards would have started firing indiscriminately probably hurting or killing several people.

That just makes me sick.

 

[infectednite]

I think some of it depends on the mental state and sobriety of the robber. For example, knowing that someone may shoot and kill me if I break into their house is a pretty strong deterrent. But if someone is strung out on meth, they prob aren't having those same thoughts.

 

[Clinton1621]

You're questioning whether or not to draw.... did you WATCH the video??? You would be outnumbered 3 to 1, probably not a smart call to draw....

 

[NightTrainHD]

You're questioning whether or not to draw.... did you WATCH the video??? You would be outnumbered 3 to 1, probably not a smart call to draw....

Oh, I agree that the odds would not be great. The worst part is if there were ten people armed they would all be thinking they were the only ones and would not draw either.

 

[UtahPI]

Well watched this several times, the only place for your weapon is CONCEALED hopefully wont be picked up when punk rob's you. The only semi smart one is the one that goes back into the restroom! There are too many targets too far apart moving and too many in the line of fire. If you draw and cause a firefight before ANY shot is fired and civilians get killed or wounded, you are in real trouble.

Comply, stay still make mental notes your best action here is to be the best witness! Plus you do not know the unkown, do they have a door guard?

 

[ChileRelleno]

Hindsight is 20/20.

I'd lay $1000.00 that for 90%+ (guesstimate) of the average citizens carrying it would have been a very bad scenario in which to draw your weapon once they were inside the doors.
Most of us , myself included, just do not have the training necessary to survive that encounter ourselves, and no one has the training/skills to not have the possibility of getting others injured/killed at the same time.
Get'em coming in the door or get'em going out, but once inside, the smart call was to stay calm and comply... Unless.
Unless they start injuring/killing and/or raping, then you'd need to do something.
And you'd better be damned quick once you start, and take the long gun out first if at all possible. Further, if one perp grabs a hostage, you're really screwed.
Anyone gets hurt/killed, and your State doesn't have laws protecting lawful/justified citizen shooters, you have to realize that you'll be on the crap end of numerous civil lawsuits.

This just further shows the need to stay in Condition Yellow, and be ever vigilant of your surroundings.
There would've been no time for Orange, if you'd spotted them coming across the lot or through the first door, you'd better have been able to go to Red in two seconds, or have kept it holstered.

It is my final opinion, that unless you've the training/skills and mindset to handle this scenario, keep it holstered, stay calm, keep others calm, get descriptions and pray it doesn't turn nasty.

 

[NightTrainHD]

Hindsight is 20/20.

I'd lay $1000.00 that for 90%+ (guesstimate) of the average citizens carrying it would have been a very bad scenario in which to draw your weapon once they were inside the doors.
Most of us , myself included, just do not have the training necessary to survive that encounter ourselves, and no one has the training/skills to not have the possibility of getting others injured/killed at the same time.
Get'em coming in the door or get'em going out, but once inside, the smart call was to stay calm and comply... Unless.
Unless they start injuring/killing and/or raping, then you'd need to do something.
And you'd better be damned quick once you start, and take the long gun out first if at all possible. Further, if one perp grabs a hostage, you're really screwed.

Anyone gets hurt/killed, and your State doesn't have laws protecting lawful/justified citizen shooters, you have to realize that you'll be on the crap end of numerous civil lawsuits.

This just further shows the need to stay in Condition Yellow, and be ever

vigilant of your surroundings.
There would've been no time for Orange, if you'd spotted them coming across the lot or through the first door, you'd better have been able to go to Red in two seconds, or have kept it holstered.

It is my final opinion, that unless you've the training/skills and mindset to handle this scenario, keep it holstered, stay calm, keep others calm, get descriptions and pray it doesn't turn nasty.

Very well said,sir.

 

[AwPhuch]

No win...3 on 1...spread out..all armed

Guy with the hi-point carbine would be the biggest threat

 

[NightTrainHD]

Hindsight is 20/20.

I'd lay $1000.00 that for 90%+ (guesstimate) of the average citizens carrying it would have been a very bad scenario in which to draw your weapon once they were inside the doors.
Most of us , myself included, just do not have the training necessary to survive that encounter ourselves, and no one has the training/skills to not have the possibility of getting others injured/killed at the same time.
Get'em coming in the door or get'em going out, but once inside, the smart call was to stay calm and comply... Unless.
Unless they start injuring/killing and/or raping, then you'd need to do something.
And you'd better be damned quick once you start, and take the long gun out first if at all possible. Further, if one perp grabs a hostage, you're really screwed.



Anyone gets hurt/killed, and your State doesn't have laws protecting lawful/justified citizen shooters, you have to realize that you'll be on the crap end of numerous civil lawsuits.


This just further shows the need to stay in Condition Yellow, and be ever vigilant of your surroundings.
There would've been no time for Orange, if you'd spotted them coming across the lot or through the first door, you'd better have been able to go to Red in two seconds, or have kept it holstered.

It is my final opinion, that unless you've the training/skills and mindset to handle this scenario, keep it holstered, stay calm, keep others calm, get descriptions and pray it doesn't turn nasty.

Very well said,sir. Could not agree more.

 

[rayikeo2]

I am not saying that anyone should draw on them. I am saying that if someone shot 1 of these guys in the chest the other 2 would have ran out the door like the rats they are.:sad:

 

[trout_champ]

I vote no draw. I would be out manned and out gunned. Just try and get the best info possible to help out the LEO's.

Randy

 

[AwPhuch]

I am not saying that anyone should draw on them. I am saying that if someone shot 1 of these guys in the chest the other 2 would have ran out the door like the rats they are.:sad:

Are you willing to risk it...you drop one...the other two turn and unload on you..since they are ganster punks..anyone between you and them end up taking stray rounds because their sites are on the side of their firearms.

The point is...the situation to defend yourself w/o substantial risk you your life went kaput the instant those thugs walked thru the door...

You might win...I would bet the odds would be stacked waaaay against you..remember there is no magic bullet, no magic gun, pistols are only marginal in their effectiveness..but that hi point carbine pushing a 9mm round out at 2x to 3x the speed your pistol can means his bullets will hurt ALOT more!

Remember a pistol is used to fight your way to a rifle...thug #2 had a carbine..which is a smallish rifle.

Too bad you couldt get those scum bags to line up!

 

[fredj338]

3 on 1 are terrible odds, but, you also can not let them find a gun on you & disarm you, possibly mistake you for a cop & kill you for just being there. A bad call for sure. Preparation & situational awareness; sit where you can exit quickly &/or present to shoot if need be. Train & practice or don't ccw. At best, you are a liability on the street w/o training, at worst, they'll kill you & take your gun to kill someone else with. It's one of the biggest issues CCW, your entire mind set must change whenever you have a gun in your person in a public place.

 

[KnightyKnight]

Wow..lots of really really good points. First off i think that you should be aware of your surroundings (situational awareness...as Fredj338 said). Now if seeing them in parking lots moments from the door would have changed anything...i don't know. You see 3 of them..you see a mask...you think...:shock:"Oh Crap"..then you see your family and strangers ((no tunnel vision)) you have milliseconds to decide:

1.Act..may take one or two of them quick..but fire fight and lots
of strays from them could hit anyone.
2. Don't act..just be compliant and pray they don't notice your
gun..because then you will be either disarmed or shot because
they think your a cop.
3. Freeze up..and contemplate if you have clean underwear on and
if you want regular or buttermilk waffles...i vote buttermilk )

I think (considering hindsight) i would recognize that there are too many variables, too many liabilities, and yell call the cops or begin calling myself (*only if you seen them before they entered- -granted i don't know if yelling anything would have helped or hurt..lol), be compliant and come off as scared and weak But watching them..taking mental notes, if they reached for my gun..or made ANY indication of seeing it..i have no choice but to Act(remember they may think ur a cop and kill you...if ur lucky they will only disarm you..but which is a higher probablilty??) Granted i am aware that this would suck sooooo bad! In my humble opinion..i would be complinate and hope and pray they dont notice my gun. Either way i don't think that starting a fire fight intially would be a great idea NOR when they are leaving..because after all its over..they are leaving there is no threat to life.

It is our duty to be vigilant and aware..to make ready for any situation, to train, to be mindful. What's the old saying..something like prepare for war but pray for peace.

I would love to hear any advice or counter arguments or suggestions...i think this is a wonderful discussion and this is the time and place to discuss such a traumatic event that develops in seconds...after all it is here that we have the luxury of time and no immediate threat.

side note: ((funny to me))
1. The guy sitting at the bar trying to "squeeze" by one of the bad guys.
...saying "excuse me..gotta go"...lmao

2. The girl in the bathroom who had to take a dble take..then went back
in..nothing clears constipation like seeing a robbery first hand...lmao

3. In the second part of the footage from another camera angle, the guy in
red shirt on other side of door that ways sweeping or something..when
he notices a bad guy behind the counter, he takes a dble take..the
disappears...lmao

 

[NightTrainHD]

Saw on the news last night, a customer said he shot 15 rounds at them when they were leaving. They did not say if he hit anything.

 

[rayikeo2]

I saw in the film that a guy in a red shirt ran out the door ringt behind the robbers following them. (at 1:37 min left in the film) I thought he might be wanting to get their license plate number, but he must have been the guy that unloaded the 15 rounds.