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Discussion Starter #1
Wanting to load for 45acp. Really confused which the load book is referring to. Thinking it's Clays not Universal, but how do tell. There is 3 types of Clays, this is nuts, IMO. What do you use Universal in, BTW.
 

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If you are just starting out reloading don't use clays. It's a low volume powder and super easy to double charge and not notice and IMO there are much better powders for 45. My favorite for 45 is W231 and I'm sure fred will be here shortly to help out also.
 

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As for Clays there are three, Universal, International ,and just Clays. Clays and Universal Clays are both shotgun and pistol powder while International is just listed as a shotgun powder. I have some Clays but only use for bunnyfart loads in 38 and 357. Check out Hodgdon's website they have a load center online also wich is a pretty good referance.
 

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I use w231. seems to be a fairly popular powder for the 45.
 

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Although I use Universal Clays in my .45 loads you are probably better off starting with the W231 as advised above.
 

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If you haven't bought the powder yet, 231 is good due to it being a common powder with lots of loads in various manuals.

But at some point, you're going to want to try WST. FredJ has been a proponent of that, and many of us have tried it (working up loads), and it's a terrific powder.
 

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If you haven't bought the powder yet, 231 is good due to it being a common powder with lots of loads in various manuals.

But at some point, you're going to want to try WST. FredJ has been a proponent of that, and many of us have tried it (working up loads), and it's a terrific powder.
 

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The Hogdon Clays naming thing has to be one of the most stupid things I have ever seen as a marketing tool. I get the Alliant Dot powders, pretty easy to remember Red, Green & Blue, but the Clays thing, very confusing. DO NOT get confused, be very sure of what you are loading. Most manuals have adopted Universal as the name for Univ. Clays, then International then CLays. I actually don't like either of them in the 45acp. Clays is fine for soft target loads, but NEVER load at max, never. It has a wierd habit of pressure spiking; where it's fine @ say 4gr & then you get 4.1gr & the pressure curve goes veritcal. Universal is just too slow for the 45acp for anything but full power loads IMO & I shoot lead bullets. I have never gotten terrific accuracy w/ Universal & lead bullets. SO I used the rest up in 9mm FMJ loads, won't buy more.
I agree, W231 is a pretty good powder for the 45acp at all vel levels. It has lots of data as W231 or HP38. The best 45acp, WST IMHO. It just works great w/ all bullet wts & types, plated, lead or jacketed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Lymans doesn't have HP38 is that another manufacturer of W231? From what I've been reading in Lymans 49th edition I'm going to be asking, reading and doing a lot research for the 45acp. Planning on making purchase of some W231 or WST and another load book, any favorites?
 

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Lymans doesn't have HP38 is that another manufacturer of W231? From what I've been reading in Lymans 49th edition I'm going to be asking, reading and doing a lot research for the 45acp. Planning on making purchase of some W231 or WST and another load book, any favorites?
They are the same powder today. So if you find HP38 in the store, you can use the LYman W231 data. Speer #14 is a great handgun book as well. Sadly, it does not have WST data.
 

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I have been experimenting with Hodgdon's TiteGroup lately and it seems pretty accurate in my XDM .45acp. Also in my Colt Commander. Sierra has a very good reloading manual which is in a 3ring binder that you can add new information to as it comes available.

Clays is a very fast burning powder if you look at the burn rate chart. Universal is what it is, Universal in most calibers. It is a good all around powder in most handgun applications. Keep on reading and studying the loads for the .45acp as there is a lot to read. It is good that you ask questions about the loads. Keeps your hands attached to your body lol. Keep safe. and happy reloading. WG
 

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I have been experimenting with Hodgdon's TiteGroup lately and it seems pretty accurate in my XDM .45acp. Also in my Colt Commander. Sierra has a very good reloading manual which is in a 3ring binder that you can add new information to as it comes available.

Clays is a very fast burning powder if you look at the burn rate chart. Universal is what it is, Universal in most calibers. It is a good all around powder in most handgun applications. Keep on reading and studying the loads for the .45acp as there is a lot to read. It is good that you ask questions about the loads. Keeps your hands attached to your body lol. Keep safe. and happy reloading. WG
For that reason I shun TG & Clays, for diff reasons. Clays fills thec ase nicely, but very narrow laod range & when you get to max, it gets pressure spikey, meaning anything goes wrong, the pressure goes vertical. TG is sim, but has the add'l. disadvantage of low volumn per charge wt, making it diff to visually verify a powder charge in any case larger than 40. Same pressure spike can occur using TG or Clays w/ heavy for caliber bullets. I would bet more 40s have been KB using 180gr & TG trying to make major, just a poor choice IMO. It is cheap & there is lots fo data for it, but those are the only advantages.
 

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Fred. I totally agree, you do have to be careful with either TG or clays. I dont use Clays anymore for your reason. Too particular. TiteGroup is just one I was experimenting with. But, for competition I use strictly Universal. It is clean burning and works well in my progressive press.

The reason I like to experiment with other powders and bullets, is that I have a lot of different caliber and different barrel length firearms. Therefore if I used just one powder, (which I probably could), but what for? It takes the enjoyment out of shooting when you find what a person might think is the perfect powder and load. Then what? It is boring after that. Unless you just shoot competition or just want a good self defense load and that is it. I hope I am making myself clear and not starting a big discusion. Just discussing what I enjoy , that is all. Yall be safe. WG:D
 

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The reason I like to experiment with other powders and bullets, is that I have a lot of different caliber and different barrel length firearms. Therefore if I used just one powder, (which I probably could), but what for? It takes the enjoyment out of shooting when you find what a person might think is the perfect powder and load. Then what? It is boring after that. Unless you just shoot competition or just want a good self defense load and that is it. I hope I am making myself clear and not starting a big discusion. Just discussing what I enjoy , that is all. Yall be safe. WG:D
Oh I feel your pain. I load for something like 22 diff calibers right now & have loaded another 6-8 that I no longer load for. So my powder collection is pretty extensive. I could probably get by w/ 4-5 diff pwoders for everything, but since I don't have to, why?
I have probably run at least 8 diff powders in the 45acp. While I have long since settled on WST for all bullets @ any normal vel level, I still experiment here & there. You never know what you will come up with.;) I don;t shoot to reload though, I reload to shoot. I still enjoy tinkering a lot, but reloading is mostly to fill the beast.
 

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I use Universal Clays in .40. It's excellent, and I prefer it to HP38 and analogues, because it fills the shell a bit higher. If I were to accidentally double load, it would spill.

Also, I tend to get higher fps out of starting loads of it than I get out of a light load of HP38.
 

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I have been experimenting with Hodgdon's TiteGroup lately and it seems pretty accurate in my XDM .45acp. Also in my Colt Commander. Sierra has a very good reloading manual which is in a 3ring binder that you can add new information to as it comes available.

Clays is a very fast burning powder if you look at the burn rate chart. Universal is what it is, Universal in most calibers. It is a good all around powder in most handgun applications. Keep on reading and studying the loads for the .45acp as there is a lot to read. It is good that you ask questions about the loads. Keeps your hands attached to your body lol. Keep safe. and happy reloading. WG
I started loading Titegroup for my XDM 45 Started at 4.4grs. 4.6gr. 4.8gr. and 5.0gr. with a Montanna Gold 230gr.rn. Found 4.4grs. worked best in my XDM. I am like you trying different powders. This is my first 45acp. Been loading for 357mag. and 44mag. along with all the rifle calibers I own. I will have to try the WST and see if it groups like the 4.4grs. of Tightgroup.
 
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