Springfield XD Forum banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am told some trigger kits are for completion while others for cc. What's the difference and which would you recommend for cc?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,854 Posts
Most people generally don't like really light triggers for carry and self defense, fearing the accidental discharge. However, if one of the rules of gun safety is followed - "Do not put your finger on the trigger until you are sighted and are ready to shoot.", then there's no problem. I like a shorter, lighter trigger because making the gun fire is not even a thought process, it's a simple tickle on the trigger. The light, short pull doesn't throw my sight picture off so to me, that makes the gun safer for bystanders. My EDC is a XD9SC, and I installed the PRP Ultimate Match trigger kit in it. I ended up with a total pull length of less than 3/8" and a pull weight of about 3.5# Most excellent!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
424 Posts
While a short, light trigger pull can be an excellent asset in competiton, or at the range in general, I personally would not lighten or change the factory trigger pull in a self defense CCW pistol at all. Yes, that lighter pull is nice in practice and theory, but under the extreme stresses of a real world situation, it would be all too easy to unintentionally pull that light trigger when one did not mean to or before fully ready to do so. Those "heavy" trigger pulls in self defense weapons are designed for a purpose, to help prevent unintentional discharges when one's hands are sweaty, adrenalin is pumping at 90mph, and the heart rate has hit the roof. And for those who think it cannot happen, I have had well trained soldiers fire prematurely due to adrenalin, even with a heavy "military" trigger pull.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My XDs is for EDC. Had not measured trigger pull but it's pretty stiff and sometimes results in my jerking of the trigger.

From what you sharing though, it sounds like for newbies stiff is better, and once more experience and practice is gained, it might be the time to lighten it up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
I never understood why people claim you want a heavy trigger for CCW/self-defense firearms. While it's true that even a heavy trigger will feel light in a self-defense situation (due to adrenaline); you shouldn't be drawing your weapon unless you intend to fire anyway, making the trigger weight moot in that situation.

IMO you should go with the trigger weight that feels best for you. Some actually prefer the heavier feel. Some like it lighter. Go with what you like. :)

Having said that, since you're posting in the XD-S section I assume you're wanting to know for the XD-S specifically. Sadly, there aren't any trigger kits for the XD-S. There's only a spring replacement kit available from PRP (as well as a modification that can be done to the grip safety spring, directions in a Sticky thread at the top of the XD-S forum).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Train with the stock trigger. You'll get get used to it. The weight isn't as hard to deal with as the long pull. But, it's all relative.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
424 Posts
My XDs is for EDC. Had not measured trigger pull but it's pretty stiff and sometimes results in my jerking of the trigger.

From what you sharing though, it sounds like for newbies stiff is better, and once more experience and practice is gained, it might be the time to lighten it up.
From your post, I would guess that you have a relatively new pistol with few rounds through it yet. Be sure you thoroughly clean and lubricate properly to get the best possible initial trigger pull. Then when you have several hundred rounds downrange, I think you will find the trigger pull has both lightened a little, and more important smoothed up a lot. It will become easier for you to control the pull at that point. One other thing is to practice "dry fire" at home a lot, Being sure to clear any and all iive ammo from the pistol (and the room) and insert a good quality snap cap. practice the trigger pull. Most of us do this hundreds, even thousands of times. It both helps smooth the trigger pull out, but more important if done correctly and conscientously, will help over come the jerking of the trigger and improve your actual range performance tremendously without resorting to dubious trigger alterations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
I put the spring in mine and it did improve a good bit but another pound off the pull would put it right were I would like to have it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
804 Posts
So far I have waited on ordering a spring kit. I have found that with around 500 rounds (and probably triple that in snap caps) the trigger has indeed smoothed out. I measure it about a pound lighter than when new, breaking consistently at 6 pounds. That's not too bad for an EDC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You are right, it is a new gun with about 200 rounds, and a few hundred snap caps.

I am a new shooter as well, so I've got a lot to learn. I bought my first gun, M&P 22 Compact, to learn shooting fairly recently and put only a couple thousand rounds through it. XDs is my second gun. Once I get CHL, XDs will be my EDC.

Right know I am focusing on safe handling techniques, basic shooting, legal, and stuff like that. Appreciate everyone's advices. Thank you all.

Alex from Texas, the land of open spaces and beautiful... well you know who.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
424 Posts
So far I have waited on ordering a spring kit. I have found that with around 500 rounds (and probably triple that in snap caps) the trigger has indeed smoothed out. I measure it about a pound lighter than when new, breaking consistently at 6 pounds. That's not too bad for an EDC.
Not bad at all. In fact, for this type of pistol, I would consider a pull in the 5.5-6 lb range jexcellent for a self defense weapon. That is where mine is at also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,854 Posts
So how does anyone justify carrying a SA 1911-type? I'll repeat the 4 laws of handgun safety, which, if followed, will result in no accidental discharges.
1. A gun is ALWAYS loaded.
2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are aimed and ready to shoot.
3. Do not point the muzzle at anything you do not want to KILL.
4. Be sure of your target and the background before you shoot.

If I draw, deadly force is POSSIBLY necessary. I say "possibly" because the one thing that will save the perp at that moment is IMMEDIATE cessation of his menacing actions. In SC, I am not required to warn. I am not required to retreat. I can draw and fire in one motion, without hesitation. At this point, a short, light trigger makes my aim easier and my sights will still be on target if a followup is necessary.

The bottom line is "what's best for YOU".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I think for a carry gun left stock is best. In the horrible event that you do have to use your weapon for self defense and you hurt or kill your attacker it will not be a good outcome for you when the dirt bag's family hires an attorney. If they see, which they will, that you altered the weapon, especially the trigger pull, it will not be a good day for you. I have heard of upstanding citizens going to prison for using those evil hollow point bullets. Remember everything you say here and on the net is public information for ever, and any attorney worth his or her salt will see what they need on a case against you. I say leave it stock and get used to the trigger, you are not trying to shoot a flies turd at 25 yards with a carry gun, just become proficient at yardages used most often in self defense situations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,488 Posts
oneover, please provide links that substantiate those claims. This myth seems to have a life of its own, and I have yet to have anyone able to provide a single verifiable instance of trigger modification or any other changes to a carry gun being used against them in court, much less being *successfully* used against them in court. Same with hand loaded / reloaded ammunition, same with hollow point ammunition.

For me, if the trigger isn't to my liking, I'll have it fixed. If the sights aren't to my liking, I'll have them fixed. And I'll carry what I want as far as ammunition goes. Personally, that means a reputable personal defense round - not because I fear lawyers, but because I cannot give my hand loaded ammunition the same degree of testing that is done by and for those reputable brands.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
424 Posts
oneover, please provide links that substantiate those claims. This myth seems to have a life of its own, and I have yet to have anyone able to provide a single verifiable instance of trigger modification or any other changes to a carry gun being used against them in court, much less being *successfully* used against them in court. Same with hand loaded / reloaded ammunition, same with hollow point ammunition.

For me, if the trigger isn't to my liking, I'll have it fixed. If the sights aren't to my liking, I'll have them fixed. And I'll carry what I want as far as ammunition goes. Personally, that means a reputable personal defense round - not because I fear lawyers, but because I cannot give my hand loaded ammunition the same degree of testing that is done by and for those reputable brands.
While oneover's response may be a little over-hyped, it is based on some facts. Read the case files of Massad Ayoob. Several cases where he was an expert witness for the defense resulted from prosecutors using firearm alterations as a basis for charging the defending citizen with criminal charges rather than a justified shooting. One case in particular among Ayoobs many involved a young police officer who altered/lightened the trigger pull on his duty Glock. Subsequently, the officer was involved in a shooting where the officer had to shoot a perp who threatened. But as a direct result of the altered trigger, the young officer was charged with unintentional homicide instead. I am not sure of the eventual outcome of the trial, but even if a citizen is eventually cleared in such an event, the trauma, social stigma, and financial costs of defending ones actions would be horrendous. But it can and sometimes does, happen.

Ayoob also cites a case where an individual got into a struggle with his estranged wife over a handgun, resulting in the wife being shot/killed at very close range. But the guy's gun was loaded with his handloads, not factory ammo. In any event, the DA and police tested the weapon with factory ammo, and at the range claimed by the guy, factory ammo left distinct powder burns. Such burn marks were not found on the wife during autopsy. This led to the guy being charged with homicide, not an accidental shooting. Tests with the guys handloaded ammo did not display the same powder burn characteristics, substantiating the guys claim, but this evidence was not admitted to the court since the court ruled he/his lawyers could not prove the shot that killed the wife was loaded exactly the same a the tested reloads, thus not admissible. He was convicted.

Again, it may not be often, but it does happen. So many of choose not to add any possible complicating factor to what would be, in and of itself, a very difficult and trying situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,307 Posts
Your shooting will be judged on the specific situation you faced. The shooting will be deemed justifiable or not based on the actions of shootee and the reasonableness of the shooters belief that deadly force was necessary. Nothing more. If the shooting is deemed justifiable, then it doesn't matter what you've done to the gun before hand. This is for a criminal case of course and all bets are off for the civil lawsuit that is surely to follow.

Bottom line is to be proficient with your firearm, practice, take real world training that puts you under stress and requires you to run the gun while doing and thinking about other things. This can help to defend yourself in a civil suit.

I can tell you that a longer and heavier trigger pull will not slow you down if you need to shoot RIGHT NOW, but does give you some added time if you happen to find yourself in a situation where dynamics are changing and you decide the need to shoot has changed because the bad guy's actions suddenly changed.

For me personally, I like good stock triggers. If you find yourself setting off rounds while prepping the trigger at the range and not intending to fire, that is not the trigger you want for self defense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Seems to me if one is that worried about a court case after any type of deal were you had to use your firearm to save yourself. You should most likely not be carrying it and stick to mace or something. I myself feel I will never draw my weapon unless I feel as if my live is at stake and if I do happen to take someone life doing so I guess I will see them in court I suppose.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
424 Posts
Seems to me if one is that worried about a court case after any type of deal were you had to use your firearm to save yourself. You should most likely not be carrying it and stick to mace or something. I myself feel I will never draw my weapon unless I feel as if my live is at stake and if I do happen to take someone life doing so I guess I will see them in court I suppose.
No need to overstate the case. Being prepared and willing to use a firearm if necessary, in self defense has nothing to do with trying to avoid unnecessary, needless legal complications. There are such a wide variety of self defense weapons out there that if one does not suit, then it is easy to find another that does work better "out of the box" for the individual without having to modify the gun in ways that might (remember this is might) create additional legal issues.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
424 Posts
Your shooting will be judged on the specific situation you faced. The shooting will be deemed justifiable or not based on the actions of shootee and the reasonableness of the shooters belief that deadly force was necessary. Nothing more. If the shooting is deemed justifiable, then it doesn't matter what you've done to the gun before hand. This is for a criminal case of course and all bets are off for the civil lawsuit that is surely to follow.
That would be nice, if true. But the two cases from Ayoobs files that I cited show that is is not so. In each case, it was the trigger alteration or the handload that changed things from justifiable to chargeable in the eyes of the court.

Bottom line is to be proficient with your firearm, practice, take real world training that puts you under stress and requires you to run the gun while doing and thinking about other things. This can help to defend yourself in a civil suit.

I can tell you that a longer and heavier trigger pull will not slow you down if you need to shoot RIGHT NOW, but does give you some added time if you happen to find yourself in a situation where dynamics are changing and you decide the need to shoot has changed because the bad guy's actions suddenly changed.

For me personally, I like good stock triggers. If you find yourself setting off rounds while prepping the trigger at the range and not intending to fire, that is not the trigger you want for self defense.
Here I agree with you completely, as I can attest from personal experience
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
No need to overstate the case. Being prepared and willing to use a firearm if necessary, in self defense has nothing to do with trying to avoid unnecessary, needless legal complications. There are such a wide variety of self defense weapons out there that if one does not suit, then it is easy to find another that does work better "out of the box" for the individual without having to modify the gun in ways that might (remember this is might) create additional legal issues.
Ya I suppose I argee to some point but all I done was install a spring kit in my crunchy extra heavy trigger after getting it back from recall work. hope I never have to use it to find out how court pans out.( pray for peace and prepare for battle).
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top