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Discussion Starter #1
Springfield claims a zero at 25yds. They don't say what type of ammunition. Has anyone mapped the 40 with WWB. Seems to me at 15-20ft to be about 3-4in low. Just looking for the easy answer if someone's already done the work.
 

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I'm no sharpshooter but I believe my XD40 is shooting 3-4 inches below target at 15 ft.

If I line my sights up perfectly (the three white dots are all in a row and the top of the sights are lined up) I have to put the bullseye just slightly below the middle dot (the front sight is actually covering up the bullseye so I have to estimate where it is behind the sight).
If I put the bullseye just above the center white dot then I have to line the rear sight dots below the center dot.

To make sure it wasn't me, I also shot a Glock and S&W revolver. Again I'm no sharpshooter but there was a huge difference between the XD and other two.

My hits with the XD land to the left more than with the others, also.

I'm using 95% WWB, 165 grn and 180 grn. The other 5% were Rem UMC.
 

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I'm wondering about the same thing. FWIW, I don't think Springfield actually claims a 25 yard zero. The manual essentially says that at 25 yards you may have to aim below what you want to hit (they refer to this as "6 o'clock" aiming). They don't really say how low you have to aim - but from my experience and others I have read about on this and other forums, it may be something like 4-6" low.

When I think of a "zero" (i.e. point of aim), I think of where the bullet's trajectory crosses the line of sight (i.e. a line tangent to the top edges of the front & rear sights). From what I have seen on trajectories of 9mm, I think the point of aim zero is 50 yards or more. This seems crazy to me to have such a long zero for a handgun.

So far (few days) I'm pretty happy overall with my SA-XD but the set-up of the factory sights are driving my crazy. I'm trying to figure out how to fix this with aftermarket sights (I wanted to switch to night sights anyways). The Truglo TFO's look interesting and I've heard good things about these.
 

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I put Dawson's Adjustable fiber opitics on my XD40 Tactical, and it shoots to the point of aim from point blank out to at least 30yrds or so. I have noticed that on 50 yrd targets it dose drop a little, maybe 2-3 inches, but I am shooting minor.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
GDS sounds like we're seeing about the same. Was really wondering what it looks like between 15' to 25yds. I know there are some computer programs out there that will plot trajectorys.
Thanks,
Rex
 

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Discussion Starter #6
From my old rifle competition days the bullet breaks the line of sight twice (on the way up and on the way down). Always useful to know where the two points are and what's happening in-between.
 

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deadelephant said:
Springfield claims a zero at 25yds.
The only claim that I have seen Springfield make is
Springfield Armory pistols are designed to use the “6 o’clock” sight picture at 25 yards. However, some pistols may shoot “point of aim” at 25 yards depending on shooter and ammunition.
and that is straight from the XD Manual.
 

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Perceived point of aim along with movement of the body while shooting all fall into the mechanics of trajectory. The most practical answer to your problem is to practice shooting until you fully understand the handling characteristics of your firearm.
 

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Since all pistols depend on a shooter and ammunition, all the manual really says is that some of their pistols may shoot 6 o'clock while others might shoot point of aim (at 25 yards). They seem to imply that 6 o'clock is what they were designing for.

It sure would be helpful if SA could explain in a little more detail what affects whether a pistol shoots one way or the other. I'll try emailing them and see if I can get them to shed some light on this.
 

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correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that "6 o'clock hold" refers to where one holds the sights in order to hit desired POI. With 6 oclock hold, one holds the sights at the bullseye's "6" to hit the bullseye, right?

-stunks

Edit: nevermind, I read the above post wrong, :?
 

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stunksinatl said:
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that "6 o'clock hold" refers to where one holds the sights in order to hit desired POI. With 6 oclock hold, one holds the sights at the bullseye's "6" to hit the bullseye, right?

-stunks

That's the way I understand it and it works great for the glock and S&W revolver that I shot.
But with my XD40 even if I aim the other way that Springfield says, with the center dot inline with the target, the POI is still low, when shooting at 10ft, 15ft, and 20ft.
I don't like that my whole front site covers up what I'm aiming at.
 

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that's interesting....

What bullet weight are you using? If you're using 165, you might try using 180. It is my understanding that heavier bullets tend to have a higher POI compared to lighter ones...

-stunks
 

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GDP & deadelephant - It sounds like you and I have opposite problems. FWIW, I sent the following email to SA. In it I reference a website that has some trajectory data that may be helpful.

Dear SA,

I recently purchased an SA-XD9 (XD9101HC) and have questions about how the sights are "zeroed". When I took the gun to the range, I found it was shooting about 2" left and 3" high of the point of aim at 15 yards. The manual only mentions that the gun was designed for 6 o'clock aiming but may shoot point of aim at 25 yards. The manual gives no quantitative guidance or explanation as how this might be affected. For what it's worth, I shoot my other 9 mm (Sig 226ST) just fine and I have shot someone else's XD-40 without such problems.

I can accept that the lateral adjustment of the sights maybe off. In fact, close inspection indicates that the rear sight is not centered exactly within the indicator marks in the dovetail. The direction of the offset would produce the observed grouping to the left. What troubles me more is that the gun shoots so high above the point of aim at 15 yards. I cannot imagine that the sights on the XD-9 would be "designed" to have the point of aim be 3" or more lower than the point of impact at 25 yards. It would make much more sense to have the gun shoot point of aim at 25 yards as this would leave all standard 9mm loads hitting within 1" of the point of aim between 0 and 50 yards for a 4" barrel (e.g. see data at http://www.le.atk.com/Interior.asp?section=1&page=pages/federal/fed_pistol_classic.asp).

I realize that one solution is that I can just aim low but that introduces a degree of judgement that should not be required if one is taking the time to line up sights and take careful aim in the first place. Sights, when properly aligned, define one and only one specific point - the point of aim. For general use, the optimal set up is one by which the sights are designed (or adjusted, if adjustable) so that the point of impact remains as close as possible to the point of aim over the typical engagment distance of the weapon. For a 9mm handgun, 25 yards seems like a good distance at which point of aim and point of impact should coincide.

Do you know at what distance the point of aim and point of impact should coincide on the XD9 (i.e. by design)? For my particular weapon, it seems like this must be 50 yards or more! As a result, the point of aim and point of impact are off by 3" or more (vertically) in the 15 to 25 yard range most suitable to the handgun. Is this "typical" for the XD9? Any advice or information would be appreciated.
 

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stunksinatl said:
that's interesting....

What bullet weight are you using? If you're using 165, you might try using 180. It is my understanding that heavier bullets tend to have a higher POI compared to lighter ones...
-stunks
I've shot 250rnds of 180grn, and 200rnds of 165grn. Using both WWB and Remington UMC. All shot the same low and left.
 

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Hmm....

I've read somewhere on the forum about people that have called Springfield about their impact problem, cause it sounds like you have one.

Apparently, they changed the sights on the pistol to suit the brand of ammunition you use the most.

Does anyone else remember reading a post like that?

-stunks
 

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at 25 yrds w/WWB i get a perfect "6 o'clock" POI.

if i remember correctly, its the same at 50yrds... i will test it this weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I compared several of the calculators and this seems to be a fairly consistent view. Played with several factors but no major changes in numbers.

Inputs were:
Diameter .40
Weight 165gr
Muzzle velocity 1060
Ballistic coef .121
Site height .75
Zero range @ 25yds

Range Path Velocity Energy
yards inches fps ft/lbs
Muzzle -0.8 1060 412
1 -0.7 1058 410
2 -0.6 1056 408
3 -0.6 1053 407
4 -0.5 1051 405
5 -0.4 1049 403
6 -0.4 1047 402
7 -0.3 1045 400
8 -0.3 1043 398
9 -0.2 1041 397
10 -0.2 1039 395
11 -0.2 1037 394
12 -0.1 1035 392
13 -0.1 1033 391
14 -0.1 1031 389
15 -0.1 1029 388
16 0 1027 386
17 0 1025 385
18 0 1023 383
19 0 1021 382
20 0 1019 381
21 0 1017 379
22 0 1016 378
23 0 1014 376
24 0 1012 375
25 0 1010 374
26 0 1008 372
27 0 1006 371
28 -0.1 1005 370
29 -0.1 1003 369
30 -0.1 1001 367
31 -0.1 999 366
32 -0.2 998 365
33 -0.2 996 363
34 -0.2 994 362
35 -0.3 993 361
36 -0.3 991 360
37 -0.4 989 359
38 -0.4 988 357
39 -0.5 986 356
40 -0.6 984 355
41 -0.6 983 354
42 -0.7 981 353
43 -0.8 980 352
44 -0.8 978 350
45 -0.9 976 349
46 -1 975 348
47 -1.1 973 347
48 -1.2 972 346
49 -1.3 970 345
50 -1.4 969 344
51 -1.5 967 343
52 -1.6 966 342
53 -1.7 964 341
54 -1.8 963 340
55 -1.9 961 339
56 -2.1 960 338
57 -2.2 958 337
58 -2.3 957 336
59 -2.4 956 335
60 -2.6 954 334
61 -2.7 953 333
62 -2.9 951 332
63 -3 950 331
64 -3.2 949 330
65 -3.3 947 329
66 -3.5 946 328
67 -3.6 945 327
68 -3.8 943 326
69 -4 942 325
70 -4.1 941 324
71 -4.3 939 323
72 -4.5 938 322
73 -4.7 937 321
74 -4.9 935 321
75 -5.1 934 320
76 -5.3 933 319
77 -5.5 931 318
78 -5.7 930 317
79 -5.9 929 316
80 -6.1 928 315
81 -6.3 926 314
82 -6.6 925 314
83 -6.8 924 313
84 -7 923 312
85 -7.2 921 311
86 -7.5 920 310
87 -7.7 919 309
88 -8 918 308
89 -8.2 916 308
90 -8.5 915 307
91 -8.7 914 306
92 -9 913 305
93 -9.3 911 304
94 -9.5 910 304
95 -9.8 909 303
96 -10.1 908 302
97 -10.4 907 301
98 -10.7 905 300
99 -11 904 300
100 -11.3 903 299
 

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therooster said:
at 25 yrds w/WWB i get a perfect "6 o'clock" POI.

if i remember correctly, its the same at 50yrds... i will test it this weekend.
I hope you don't get offended, I'm not questioning your shootability.
You do mean 25 yards and not 25 feet?

At 15 ft when using the "6 o'clock" Point Of Aim, my POI is 4" below target. At 75 ft wouldn't my POI be even lower? Or does the bullet actually curve upward for the first 100 ft (I'm not very familiar with bullet trajectory yet)?
I'm not good enough to test this past 45 ft myself.

Does "therooster" have anything to do with Alice In Chains' "The Rooster" or the farm animal rooster?

Thanks for your input?
 
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