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I see one thing that is questionable.

Curbs, fences, and other barriers, even other cars, will rarely stop 4,000-pounds and 150 horses.
Most people drive small cars these days, an air bag in your face generally puts an end to things at least for a short time.

This is why I believe it's best to have a 4x4 vehicle with push bars on the front, then that paragraph above is more likely to be true.
A 350HP 4x4, 6k#, will push/ram stuff better than a 200HP 4x2, 4K#, vehicle.
 

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^ Even then, A LOT is based on the specific vehicle's various sensors and safety features.

Modern crash-mitigation systems and after-incident fire-suppression/prevention safeties can all be an issue where it comes to the ability to both ram/push - and not just from the front, but also the rear of the vehicle. In certain instances, modern high-end SUVs with 9+ inches of ground clearance, riding on 18+ inch wheels and AT-rated tires, packing 300+ horsepower and as much torque - can be defeated by a simple 4-inch curbing when their driver-assist systems refuse to obey drive-by-wire input commands, and instead insist on crunching through lines of conflicting code. I see a lot of false bravado on the automotive Forums in which I either participate or lurk in, and I sometimes chuckle to myself when I see comments from the owners - who write in other threads that they specifically sought out X or Y vehicle for its abilities in crash-mitigation - when they suggest that they'd just "ram through" such or so, when as a matter of fact their vehicle will automatically come to an ABS-assisted stop...or won't even move forward...because their crash-sensors "sees" the obstacle.

Certainly, the argument for a more "analog" vehicle of a certain age/time-period can be made, but given that the chances of one being seriously injured or killed in an automobile "accident" is statistically much, much, much more likely, the argument for a more modern, more crash-worthy and safety-capable vehicle is also not without its own merit. This is a hard balancing-act, and I feel that there's really no hard right or wrong answer, here.

The biggest tactical problem (outside of legalities), IMveryHO, is really that the vehicle is really both your best weapon as well as your best method of escape. These two faces of the same coin are hard to reconcile.
 

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My over 7,000 lbs 4x4 (310hp, 425 ft-lbs) will likely "win" in a collision and then push a lot of garbage out of the way and keep on going. It also isn't worth carjacking over.
 

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^ Even then, A LOT is based on the specific vehicle's various sensors and safety features.

Modern crash-mitigation systems and after-incident fire-suppression/prevention safeties can all be an issue where it comes to the ability to both ram/push - and not just from the front, but also the rear of the vehicle. In certain instances, modern high-end SUVs with 9+ inches of ground clearance, riding on 18+ inch wheels and AT-rated tires, packing 300+ horsepower and as much torque - can be defeated by a simple 4-inch curbing when their driver-assist systems refuse to obey drive-by-wire input commands, and instead insist on crunching through lines of conflicting code. I see a lot of false bravado on the automotive Forums in which I either participate or lurk in, and I sometimes chuckle to myself when I see comments from the owners - who write in other threads that they specifically sought out X or Y vehicle for its abilities in crash-mitigation - when they suggest that they'd just "ram through" such or so, when as a matter of fact their vehicle will automatically come to an ABS-assisted stop...or won't even move forward...because their crash-sensors "sees" the obstacle.

Certainly, the argument for a more "analog" vehicle of a certain age/time-period can be made, but given that the chances of one being seriously injured or killed in an automobile "accident" is statistically much, much, much more likely, the argument for a more modern, more crash-worthy and safety-capable vehicle is also not without its own merit. This is a hard balancing-act, and I feel that there's really no hard right or wrong answer, here.

The biggest tactical problem (outside of legalities), IMveryHO, is really that the vehicle is really both your best weapon as well as your best method of escape. These two faces of the same coin are hard to reconcile.
How much of that stuff can be disabled by the vehicle owner?

My old man has a 20 Silverado Z71 that turns off at idle/red lights. He said that was unacceptable so we got a programmer to disable that "feature".
Just curious if the ones you're talking about can be disabled also.

My trucks are a 15 & 18 so I don't think they have that stuff because I've jumped curbs at 5 to 10 mph to cross islands being impatient in traffic jams with both.
 

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My wife’s 10 sube forester has that frigging traction control and I absolutely hate it! It has gotten me stuck more than it’s helped. If your in a slippery situation and need power it takes it upon itself to deny you of any. There’s a button that’s supposed to override it even though the manual suggests against it because you’ll die for sure, but it is for deception use only. I’ve been driving for 50 years and don’t need some micro chip box telling me when, where and what I need in a 1/8th of a second considering it can’t see or think. A fellow here has a Dodge p/u that he uses to check on his radio antennas that are in some pretty hairy areas in the crappy weather. He also said that he’s also gotten stuck more and actually not been able to make it to the antenna site’s because of the vehicles “safety help”. Bunch of BS.
 

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My wife’s 10 sube forester has that frigging traction control and I absolutely hate it! It has gotten me stuck more than it’s helped. If your in a slippery situation and need power it takes it upon itself to deny you of any. There’s a button that’s supposed to override it even though the manual suggests against it because you’ll die for sure, but it is for deception use only. I’ve been driving for 50 years and don’t need some micro chip box telling me when, where and what I need in a 1/8th of a second considering it can’t see or think. A fellow here has a Dodge p/u that he uses to check on his radio antennas that are in some pretty hairy areas in the crappy weather. He also said that he’s also gotten stuck more and actually not been able to make it to the antenna site’s because of the vehicles “safety help”. Bunch of BS.
Solution is to lightly press the brakes...if stuck in mud and wheel spin is easy...lightly press the brakes to put tension on all the other axles usually balancing power output
Learned that in HMMWV training in the USMC
 

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^ The Subaru's system is - unfortunately - "smarter" than that. It's s combination vehicle-stability as well as traction-control system, which incorporates in and of itself the use of the vehicle's brakes for various scenarios. What's even more frustrating is that the systems' evolution means that what worked one model revision (for Subarus, they refer to this as a chassis revision, i.e. "BL/BP," "BM," etc.). 🤪

Subarus since 2005. 😅

And towards that......

How much of that stuff can be disabled by the vehicle owner?
Variable. Highly variable.

On some, it's as easy as pressing a button (but in some vehicles, you may have to press that button EACH AND EVERY TIME you start the vehicle) - for others, you may be able to "jailbreak" by hacking into the ECU either physically or via the OBD-port (either commercially available hardware/firmware or via a "generic" cable and community-driven software).

For yet others, it's all but impossible, and that "impossibility" varies by degree (i.e. some aspects of the programming can be shut down, but a basic level remains, and will still intervene).

And what's worse, like I tried to explain at a very basic and generic level above about the Subaru's behavior, this can also change from vehicle revision to revision.
 

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Our Forester just cuts the fuel delivery until things hook up again. The problem I had was some deep snow that got deeper unexpectedly. I was traveling at about 40 mph and was trying to keep my momentum up. If I was able to have full power I could have gotten right through it no problem, but at the first sign of wheel spin it chopped the power and there we sat. There was no time for pushing buttons, tapping brakes, grabbing my balls ect. I needed power Right Now and all I got was a heavy sigh. Same thing in mud, if any of you have driven in mud or soft dirt you know you need power when you need it. You go to give this thing a little jab to keep going and it drops the ball and let’s you sit. Kinda like most of the people of today, big promises, no delivery. You know,, like the government. Hello, we’re from the government and we’re here to help!
 

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^ My '19 Ascent is pretty aggressive with its safety interventions. Other long-time Subaru loyalists have suggested that it seems (qualitative) to them that it's even more aggressive than with their other Subarus. My Ascent is my first with EyeSight, but it's not the first EyeSight equipped that I've ever driven for longer periods. I swear it's a bit more aggressive in warning/interventions versus my wife's '19 WRX.

I totally forgot that you've got fuel-cut to contend with, too: same here.

This, along with the drive-by-wire throttle cut-off with brake application, really nixes a good bit of the fun with these vehicles.
 

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^ My '19 Ascent is pretty aggressive with its safety interventions. Other long-time Subaru loyalists have suggested that it seems (qualitative) to them that it's even more aggressive than with their other Subarus. My Ascent is my first with EyeSight, but it's not the first EyeSight equipped that I've ever driven for longer periods. I swear it's a bit more aggressive in warning/interventions versus my wife's '19 WRX.
Not relevant to this thread, but my wife’s 2019 RAV4 has something similar (front camera, radar, etc) that not only gives you lane change warnings but also lane assist. You can literally take your hands off the wheel and it will steer itself down the road. It will remind you to put your hands back on the wheel but with lane assist, adaptive cruise, brake assist, and built-in nav, this is basically a self-driving car.
 

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^ My '19 Ascent is pretty aggressive with its safety interventions. Other long-time Subaru loyalists have suggested that it seems (qualitative) to them that it's even more aggressive than with their other Subarus. My Ascent is my first with EyeSight, but it's not the first EyeSight equipped that I've ever driven for longer periods. I swear it's a bit more aggressive in warning/interventions versus my wife's '19 WRX.

I totally forgot that you've got fuel-cut to contend with, too: same here.

This, along with the drive-by-wire throttle cut-off with brake application, really nixes a good bit of the fun with these vehicles.
Just curious, beings you have experience with EyeSight on these vehicles do you think it could See the road in this picture? This is us following the neighbor down the road after he pulled us out. What you can’t see is small sprigs of wheat stubble lining the edges of the road that I was using as a guide. I actually was going to turn around and take another route when we got sucked into the drift because of lack of power.
837669
 

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^ No, I don't believe that it will.

EyeSight will still be active as a part of the collision mitigation algorithms (and this actually will include adaptive cruise), but in terms of features such as Lane Keep Assist and/or Lane Departure Warning/Sway Warning, in my personal experience, without actual lane markings being visible, the system will either fault/warn or will false.

Towards the latter, even roadside leaves, excessively pockmarked roadways or worn markings, or even certain visual aberrations in terms of windshield reflections or ambient conditions (rapid flashes of sunlight through trees, combined with dark shadows, for example) can cause these ancillary systems to glitch, and I have indeed experienced all such glitches.

With forward collision management, preceding vehicles' exhaust plumes and/or manhole vents can also cause false triggering of either the warning - or even full activation of pre-collision braking.

It's worth keeping in mind that even for as sophisticated as EyeSight is, it's still a "driver's assist," so your active management and interventions are/may be required, should you foresee (either via experience or via actual visual confirmation of such obstacles) certain down-road scenarios.

Both in terms of forward as well as reverse-gear collision management, certain inputs from the driver can overcome the system's programmed inputs: i.e. the driver's specific inputs essentially tell the computer that you have seen the obstacle and that it is a "false alarm," that the vehicle should progress through it, instead. This is something that many new-to-EyeSight drivers either miss or mis-understand, as they fail to RTMFM. :ROFLMAO::p:geek:
 

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That’s interesting, thanks for the info. When they first came out with that crap on many of the rigs the very first thing I thought of was a tumble weed would roll in front of you, the car would dynamite the brakes and stuff you into the ditch especially if it was slick. For some people these systems can help but I envision them making many people dumber than they already are. You know, “I don’t have to pay attention, my car will do it for me” group of people.
What’s funny is that I told my wife that if I had the auto steer out of my tractor installed on her car it could have guided us home even though you couldn’t see the road. :D
 

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More and more, thinking stick with the hoopties. I like computers, but I don't like some of the stuff done with them. My 21yo ride has those stupid chipped key, but only 1. If that chip fails, I'm looking at some serious coin.
 

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My personal vehicle are all older (02 Ram, 99 XJ, 04 Mustang) but my work truck is a 2021 and has ALL of the collision avoidance bells and whistles. Seamless for the most part but they can really jack you up when they rebel.

For example, l got stuck behind a 35mph farm tractor on a 55mph two-lane the other day. Winding-up an 80k lb truck to get around a slower vehicle as quickly as possible requires some planning. I usually back off so that l can build up some steam and pass safely when oncoming traffic allows.... you gotta watch for upcoming "breaks" in traffic and time it fairly precisely. I had it pedalled up to about 60mph, timing my lane change to the point where the last oncoming car would be past me. As l edged-out into the opposite lane, the sensors picked up that l was bearing-down on the slow vehicle and hit the Jake brake AND the air brakes ruining my maneuver... l had to drop three gears, abort the whole operation, and drop back in behind the farmer for another few miles until l got another chance.
No tragedy resulted, but if the road had been slick... ? That little stunt would've jackknifed the rig immediately and l would have had 0 control over it. Theoretically, the Jake and air brakes would have released as soon as the wheel speed reached 0, but it still would have been too late.
To be clear and satisfy any armchair big riggers, l wouldn't have done this IF the road was slick or icy. But there are other things that will set-off the electronic nannies that involve nothing more than running down the open road; overpass abutments, the previously mentioned tumbleweeds, sometimes nothing at all (visible). Bottom line is, after 30 years as a CMV operator, l trust my judgement and skill level 1000% more than a computer-driven nanny that's supposed to "keep me safe".
I'm pretty sure @kyletx1911a1 would agree w me on that.
 

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My personal vehicle are all older (02 Ram, 99 XJ, 04 Mustang) but my work truck is a 2021 and has ALL of the collision avoidance bells and whistles. Seamless for the most part but they can really jack you up when they rebel.

For example, l got stuck behind a 35mph farm tractor on a 55mph two-lane the other day. Winding-up an 80k lb truck to get around a slower vehicle as quickly as possible requires some planning. I usually back off so that l can build up some steam and pass safely when oncoming traffic allows.... you gotta watch for upcoming "breaks" in traffic and time it fairly precisely. I had it pedalled up to about 60mph, timing my lane change to the point where the last oncoming car would be past me. As l edged-out into the opposite lane, the sensors picked up that l was bearing-down on the slow vehicle and hit the Jake brake AND the air brakes ruining my maneuver... l had to drop three gears, abort the whole operation, and drop back in behind the farmer for another few miles until l got another chance.
No tragedy resulted, but if the road had been slick... ? That little stunt would've jackknifed the rig immediately and l would have had 0 control over it. Theoretically, the Jake and air brakes would have released as soon as the wheel speed reached 0, but it still would have been too late.
To be clear and satisfy any armchair big riggers, l wouldn't have done this IF the road was slick or icy. But there are other things that will set-off the electronic nannies that involve nothing more than running down the open road; overpass abutments, the previously mentioned tumbleweeds, sometimes nothing at all (visible). Bottom line is, after 30 years as a CMV operator, l trust my judgement and skill level 1000% more than a computer-driven nanny that's supposed to "keep me safe".
I'm pretty sure @kyletx1911a1 would agree w me on that.
NOW POINT SET MATCH. I've been at it since 96 . I dispise anything that can override what 30 yrs of experience can do
 

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My personal vehicle are all older (02 Ram, 99 XJ, 04 Mustang) but my work truck is a 2021 and has ALL of the collision avoidance bells and whistles. Seamless for the most part but they can really jack you up when they rebel.

For example, l got stuck behind a 35mph farm tractor on a 55mph two-lane the other day. Winding-up an 80k lb truck to get around a slower vehicle as quickly as possible requires some planning. I usually back off so that l can build up some steam and pass safely when oncoming traffic allows.... you gotta watch for upcoming "breaks" in traffic and time it fairly precisely. I had it pedalled up to about 60mph, timing my lane change to the point where the last oncoming car would be past me. As l edged-out into the opposite lane, the sensors picked up that l was bearing-down on the slow vehicle and hit the Jake brake AND the air brakes ruining my maneuver... l had to drop three gears, abort the whole operation, and drop back in behind the farmer for another few miles until l got another chance.
No tragedy resulted, but if the road had been slick... ? That little stunt would've jackknifed the rig immediately and l would have had 0 control over it. Theoretically, the Jake and air brakes would have released as soon as the wheel speed reached 0, but it still would have been too late.
To be clear and satisfy any armchair big riggers, l wouldn't have done this IF the road was slick or icy. But there are other things that will set-off the electronic nannies that involve nothing more than running down the open road; overpass abutments, the previously mentioned tumbleweeds, sometimes nothing at all (visible). Bottom line is, after 30 years as a CMV operator, l trust my judgement and skill level 1000% more than a computer-driven nanny that's supposed to "keep me safe".
I'm pretty sure @kyletx1911a1 would agree w me on that.
Can you put duct tape over the sensors to disable them?
 
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