Springfield XD Forum banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
Wow, first gen was a polymer that wouldn't make it past 500 or so rounds. Looks like someone made improvements and switched materials.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,903 Posts
I think the "Ghost Gun" machine will mean more trouble for US in the form of European type registration schemes and serialized parts, ie: no more AR uppers through the mail, no more mailing your slide to James (or anyone else), and I believe, as some states/countries already dictate with vehicles, no modification from stock.

As cool as the affordable CNC/3D printer is, in the current climate it has the potential to light a legislative fuse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,062 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
is it the ghost gun machine?

if so... as i noted on another forum... those are some damn expensive lowers... that can never be sold.

There is no way that the ATF could know who bought the 80% lowers or finished them. Without serial numbers there is no way to track them either.

Basically, this little desktop CNC machine has opened the door to anyone making a gun that wants one and not just POS zip gun stuff either.

In fact, it appears that with this machine, an 80% lower isn't actually needed Just a block of metal of the appropriate size and the proper CAD file. You could make the slide and receiver for a pistol with one. All you'd need then is the springs and a few parts like a barrel, trigger, firing pin, magazine, etc. and you're good to go.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,171 Posts
It is just a portable/project CNC machine for aluminum/plastic/wood that has a multitude of uses. The just chose to showcase the milling of an AR receiver.

I have a lathe, drill press/milling machine, shear, and welders...does that mean that they are gun making machines too?? That is how they did it before CNC/automated machines were invented. And it is still LEGAL to make your own weapons from raw materials for personal use. I use to make my own AK receivers and rear trunnions.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
209 Posts
If you had a manufacturing license and put serial number on them would you be ok????
Organized crime probably has had this for some time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,062 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Don't be too sure of that!
They might be able to find out who the original purchaser was, but that's it.

You could go to a gun show and buy one without a NICs check. You could buy one from a person that decided not to finish it. You could buy one as part of a group buy and only one person would be the listed purchaser.

Without a serial number they are completely untraceable after they get sold the first time.

However, the fact still remains that you could buy a rectangular block of metal and mill it into a receiver with this machine.

Do you suppose the ATF is going to worry about tracking all aluminum billet sales?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
127,986 Posts
Do you suppose the ATF is going to worry about tracking all aluminum billet sales?
Probably not, but anything is possible with this administration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,949 Posts
Am I the only one that is glad the government can't regulate this stuff?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,703 Posts
They might be able to find out who the original purchaser was, but that's it.

You could go to a gun show and buy one without a NICs check. You could buy one from a person that decided not to finish it. You could buy one as part of a group buy and only one person would be the listed purchaser.

Without a serial number they are completely untraceable after they get sold the first time.

However, the fact still remains that you could buy a rectangular block of metal and mill it into a receiver with this machine.

Do you suppose the ATF is going to worry about tracking all aluminum billet sales?
Doesn't change the fact that you cannot sell what you produce from that machine if that product falls under the definition of a firearm. HENSE, those are some super expensive lower receivers.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
0 Posts
I want this, I would love to add it to my garage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,062 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Doesn't change the fact that you cannot sell what you produce from that machine if that product falls under the definition of a firearm. HENSE, those are some super expensive lower receivers.
Yeah, you aren't legally allowed to sell them. But if you want to make a couple AR15s, a couple AR10s and then start making a bunch of other things like flash suppressors, sights, grips, rails, stocks, gas blocks, magazine followers, gears for a car project, or whatever else you can imagine out of wood, plastic, metal, etc., you can.

Not everyone will want to buy one, but for those that do, it can be an immensely powerful tool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,959 Posts
When you get it, you should rent your garage for a few hours... 8)
There's a local gunsmith who sells 80%'s and has a brother who owns a metal shop. You buy the 80%'s and then rent the metal shop for an hour and get "supervision" on your use of the machines. Same results.

Of course I did the math and the lower ends up costing you about $100 more, but it's not on the books. And another $50-$100 will get it coated or anodized.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,171 Posts
Doesn't change the fact that you cannot sell what you produce from that machine if that product falls under the definition of a firearm. HENSE, those are some super expensive lower receivers.
Actually you can sell them. They must be serialized and have your info on them. They must be 4473'd to you and then you can sell them. You just can't do it as a business. No different then selling AKs from flats. Been there, done that. I have an ATF letter somewhere when i sold off 4 AKs that I built, 2 from scratch and 2 from flats.

Don't have scanner, but here is the important part of the letter...

Also, for your information, a nonlicensee may manufacture a semiautomatic rifle for his or her own personal use. As long as the firearm remains in the custody of the person who manufactured it, the firearm need not be marked with a serial number or name and location of the manufacturer. However, if the firearm is transferred to another party at some point in the future, the firearm must be marked in accordance with the provisions set forth in 27 CFR § 478.92 (formerly 178.92).
Finally, a licensed collector may acquire, hold, or dispose of firearms classified as “curios or relics” as that term is defined in 27 CFR 478.11 (formerly 178.11). The collector’s license does not authorize the holder to manufacture a firearm for commercial resale.

For further details on issues related to your inquiry, please refer to the enclosed ATF publication, Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2000 (ATF P 5300.4). The text of 27 CFR 478.41(d) (formerly 178.41) appears on page 53; that of 27 CFR 478.93 (formerly 178.93), on page 58.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,703 Posts
When you get it, you should rent your garage for a few hours... 8)
i know what you're thinking, and that makes him a manufacture, even if he isn't doing the work. the ATF has defined that when they clarified what a build party was. a CNC machine is specifically mentioned.

Actually you can sell them. They must be serialized and have your info on them. They must be 4473'd to you and then you can sell them. You just can't do it as a business. No different then selling AKs from flats. Been there, done that. I have an ATF letter somewhere when i sold off 4 AKs that I built, 2 from scratch and 2 from flats.

Don't have scanner, but here is the important part of the letter...
TO my knowledge, you have to be a FFL type 7 to do so. but if you have a letter i think there is a LOT of people who would be VERY interested in reading it.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top