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Discussion Starter #1
I watched the entire video of the cop with his knee on the neck of George Floyd while he kept telling him he couldn't breath and the bystanders yelling at the cop to get off of him. The cop didn't, 7-8 minutes with his knee on his neck until the guy completely stopped moving. Ambulance shows up and they roll him over and the guy is obviously dead. No movement at all, I watched his chest to see if there was any movement - nothing. It looks obvious that the cop with his knee on his neck suffocated him.

Of course we don't know what happened before that, and there's always more to the story. But the cop on his neck looks like a murderer and the other cops standing around look like accomplices. Numerous bystanders begged him to get off, tried to shame him into getting off, yelled to the cop that he was killing the man, and the cop did nothing but keep his knee and all his body weight on the mans neck.

This looks tremendously bad and I'm not sure how the hell you can condone that cop just kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes until the guy stops moving and after he's been begging you to get off so he can breath. The cop on his neck needs to be tried for murder, the others standing around accomplices. I hope the city doesn't burn in the meantime.
 

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He needs to be arrested and booked, immediately. If this was anybody else but a cop, you know damn well they’d be behind bars.

As he was kneeling on his neck, he said, and I quote—“Who’s the tough guy now”.

Additionally—other cops who defend him? Part of the problem. The “thin blue line” mentality needs to be destroyed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
He needs to be arrested and booked, immediately. If this was anybody else but a cop, you know damn well they’d be behind bars.

As he was kneeling on his neck, he said, and I quote—“Who’s the tough guy now”.

Additionally—other cops who defend him? Part of the problem. The “thin blue line” mentality needs to be destroyed.
The investigation is going to run its course but I don't doubt that cop is going to prison, maybe for the balance of his life.

It was sickening. And the other cops, especially that milk toast keeping the people away, are complicit. They could have told him to get off rather than milling around while he murders that guy.
 

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The original incident happened just under half a mile from my house.

For context, the intersection where this occurred is the centerpoint of criminal activity in the immediate area, which is otherwise a pretty safe neighborhood to the north, and a very safe neighborhood to the south. A small cluster of businesses that are to some degree "friendly" to criminal elements is why crime persists here. The "grocery store" that called the police on him is really a combination convenience, deli, clothing, and used electronics store. It is notorious locally for dealing in stolen electronics. The 38th St corridor, especially the intersection of 38th & 4th (quarter-mile west) is the historical center of Minneapolis' middle-class black community. That association has diminished a lot over time, as the end of redlining allowed professional blacks to move wherever, and the neighborhood was deliberately damaged through freeway construction, school closings, etc. But you'll still find a lot of black-owned businesses and institutions in the immediate area, including the offices for the 2nd longest-running black newspaper in the country, and higher-end services uses like dental and psychology clinics.

I'm someone who believes in innocent until proven guilty and that the burden of proof lies on the prosecution. I am a big supporter of law and order and generally give police the benefit of the doubt. They have a really tough job and have to work with the worst of our society on a daily basis, making split-second decisions about the use of force. The Jamar Clark case was unfortunate, but based on the available evidence it looked the the officers were likely in the right. In both the Philando Castile and Justine Damond cases, it seemed like the officers were probably in the wrong, but hard to say for certain based on the available evidence. In both cases, the officers had to make split-second decisions, and whether through bad/lack of training or a bad mindset, they made the wrong decisions. It's tough. I wouldn't want to have to make those types of decisions.

This is different. If you haven't watched the full, 9-ish minute video, please do so before forming an opinion. While other evidence could certainly emerge, it is very tough to imagine what could justify this. I have tried to come up with a scenario where he remains a threat and I haven't been able to do so. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but as I see it, it doesn't really matter what happened before the video. No human should be treated this way. If you did this to someone in Afghanistan you would face disciplinary action. This isn't Afghanistan, this is your own city. And this is not a failure of training or mindset that causes someone to make a split-second mistake. This is a a failure of basic humanity and a wicked, brutal hatred. I don't know what else you call kneeling on someone's neck for 8 minutes while they're in handcuffs, including for 4 minutes after they've already lost conciousness.

Aside from the main video, I have seen a couple clips from the store's security cameras that show him sitting on the ground and refusing to get up when the officers are asking him to. I'm sure we will eventually see the full footage of whatever scuffle ensued. Supposedly all officers had their bodycams running. I've also seen a photo from across the street which shows that two other officers were holding his lower body down while the one officer was kneeling on his neck, which is blocked from view by the squad car in the main video.

The city has already fired all 4 officers, which is unusual. In the past they have placed officers on administrative leave during long drawn-out investigations. Presumably the review of the body camera footage makes this pretty clear in the opinion of the mayor and police administration. Hopefully the evidence is clear enough that the BCA and county attorney can move quickly as well.

MPD needs to clean house. Throw out the union contract and start over. Bring everyone through a re-hiring process with new psych evaluations. Completely revamp how excessive force complaints are reviewed. This officer had been involved in 3 previous officer-involved shootings, and had about a dozen excessive force complaints, none of which resulted in disciplinary action. Some of those were probably justified. Based on this officer's behaviour in this incident, it seems extremely likely that some of them weren't. It seems highly likely to me that if he had been previously disciplined for less serious excessive force violations, he would not have felt empowered to do something like this.

This whole thing is embarrassing for our city and state. This is the kind of thing you read about in the deep south. This isn't supposed to happen here. This is pathetic and shameful, and we have a lot of work to do.

A lot of what happened last night I haven't seen in the news yet. The damage to squad cars and officers' personal vehicles at the 3rd precinct is being under reported. Looked like about two-dozen vehicles damaged. Most of the violence was directed at the precinct building only, but there was a liquor store damaged and briefly looted. Also not in the news as far as I have seen is that several hundred also showed up at the officer's house in the suburbs and it sounds like some squads were damaged out there too.

I don't think we're likely to see much more violence. Last night was probably the worst of it. We will probably see a protest encampment outside the 3rd precinct until charges are announced. Hopefully soon.
 

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The investigation is going to run its course but I don't doubt that cop is going to prison, maybe for the balance of his life.

It was sickening. And the other cops, especially that milk toast keeping the people away, are complicit. They could have told him to get off rather than milling around while he murders that guy.
That would be justice, but I’ll bet he gets off with under 20, serves less than half.

At least they’ve been fired, and the police union’s rather lukewarm protests mean they probably aren’t going to put up much more than a pro forma grievance...which means taxpayers hopefully won’t foot the bill.
 

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I haven’t seen video or photos but was the guy on his back when the officer had a knee in his neck? Just trying to think how he was choked out. Most of the time they make you lay down on tour stomach while they cuff/detain you. That means his head would have been to one side exposing one side of his neck. If that is the case, the other side of his neck should be supplying blood and O2.
 

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I haven’t seen video or photos but was the guy on his back when the officer had a knee in his neck? Just trying to think how he was choked out. Most of the time they make you lay down on tour stomach while they cuff/detain you. That means his head would have been to one side exposing one side of his neck. If that is the case, the other side of his neck should be supplying blood and O2.
Immaterial.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I haven’t seen video or photos but was the guy on his back when the officer had a knee in his neck? Just trying to think how he was choked out. Most of the time they make you lay down on tour stomach while they cuff/detain you. That means his head would have been to one side exposing one side of his neck. If that is the case, the other side of his neck should be supplying blood and O2.
Face down, watch the video. Prepare to be sickened.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The original incident happened just under half a mile from my house.

For context, the intersection where this occurred is the centerpoint of criminal activity in the immediate area, which is otherwise a pretty safe neighborhood to the north, and a very safe neighborhood to the south. A small cluster of businesses that are to some degree "friendly" to criminal elements is why crime persists here. The "grocery store" that called the police on him is really a combination convenience, deli, clothing, and used electronics store. It is notorious locally for dealing in stolen electronics. The 38th St corridor, especially the intersection of 38th & 4th (quarter-mile west) is the historical center of Minneapolis' middle-class black community. That association has diminished a lot over time, as the end of redlining allowed professional blacks to move wherever, and the neighborhood was deliberately damaged through freeway construction, school closings, etc. But you'll still find a lot of black-owned businesses and institutions in the immediate area, including the offices for the 2nd longest-running black newspaper in the country, and higher-end services uses like dental and psychology clinics.

I'm someone who believes in innocent until proven guilty and that the burden of proof lies on the prosecution. I am a big supporter of law and order and generally give police the benefit of the doubt. They have a really tough job and have to work with the worst of our society on a daily basis, making split-second decisions about the use of force. The Jamar Clark case was unfortunate, but based on the available evidence it looked the the officers were likely in the right. In both the Philando Castile and Justine Damond cases, it seemed like the officers were probably in the wrong, but hard to say for certain based on the available evidence. In both cases, the officers had to make split-second decisions, and whether through bad/lack of training or a bad mindset, they made the wrong decisions. It's tough. I wouldn't want to have to make those types of decisions.

This is different. If you haven't watched the full, 9-ish minute video, please do so before forming an opinion. While other evidence could certainly emerge, it is very tough to imagine what could justify this. I have tried to come up with a scenario where he remains a threat and I haven't been able to do so. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but as I see it, it doesn't really matter what happened before the video. No human should be treated this way. If you did this to someone in Afghanistan you would face disciplinary action. This isn't Afghanistan, this is your own city. And this is not a failure of training or mindset that causes someone to make a split-second mistake. This is a a failure of basic humanity and a wicked, brutal hatred. I don't know what else you call kneeling on someone's neck for 8 minutes while they're in handcuffs, including for 4 minutes after they've already lost conciousness.

Aside from the main video, I have seen a couple clips from the store's security cameras that show him sitting on the ground and refusing to get up when the officers are asking him to. I'm sure we will eventually see the full footage of whatever scuffle ensued. Supposedly all officers had their bodycams running. I've also seen a photo from across the street which shows that two other officers were holding his lower body down while the one officer was kneeling on his neck, which is blocked from view by the squad car in the main video.

The city has already fired all 4 officers, which is unusual. In the past they have placed officers on administrative leave during long drawn-out investigations. Presumably the review of the body camera footage makes this pretty clear in the opinion of the mayor and police administration. Hopefully the evidence is clear enough that the BCA and county attorney can move quickly as well.

MPD needs to clean house. Throw out the union contract and start over. Bring everyone through a re-hiring process with new psych evaluations. Completely revamp how excessive force complaints are reviewed. This officer had been involved in 3 previous officer-involved shootings, and had about a dozen excessive force complaints, none of which resulted in disciplinary action. Some of those were probably justified. Based on this officer's behaviour in this incident, it seems extremely likely that some of them weren't. It seems highly likely to me that if he had been previously disciplined for less serious excessive force violations, he would not have felt empowered to do something like this.

This whole thing is embarrassing for our city and state. This is the kind of thing you read about in the deep south. This isn't supposed to happen here. This is pathetic and shameful, and we have a lot of work to do.

A lot of what happened last night I haven't seen in the news yet. The damage to squad cars and officers' personal vehicles at the 3rd precinct is being under reported. Looked like about two-dozen vehicles damaged. Most of the violence was directed at the precinct building only, but there was a liquor store damaged and briefly looted. Also not in the news as far as I have seen is that several hundred also showed up at the officer's house in the suburbs and it sounds like some squads were damaged out there too.

I don't think we're likely to see much more violence. Last night was probably the worst of it. We will probably see a protest encampment outside the 3rd precinct until charges are announced. Hopefully soon.
This is a really good post, thanks for your perspective,

This is a major city in North America, we're not under attack or Marshal Law, there wasn't a riot going on, gunshots being fired, there was zero danger to anyone by letting the man up, by getting the fuck off of his neck. I agree, a failure of basic humanity, an evil heart at work.

It makes you wonder when you see something like this, what kind of screenings are we doing before we give someone a gun and a badge. In Portland the Antifa freaks can riot, burn down businesses, and beat the hell out of anyone who disagrees with them. Then go home and play Xbox in their mommies basement until the next riot starts, and the cops do jack shit. In Minneapolis a black guy gets suffocated to death for doing what?

Man, race has to play a part in that conversation.
 

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Face down, watch the video. Prepare to be sickened.
He was cuffed! Why the hell are you still on his neck? I understand that you need to put your knee there while he is being detained and cuffed but he was cuffed!!!! Move your knee to the center of his back and hold the cuffs. If he is still kicking, cuff the legs! Jesus! It is not that hard.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
He was cuffed! Why the hell are you still on his neck? I understand that you need to put your knee there while he is being detained and cuffed but he was cuffed!!!! Move your knee to the center of his back and hold the cuffs. If he is still kicking, cuff the legs! Jesus! It is not that hard.
Yep. Bystanders friggin SHRIEKING at him to get off the guys neck. Nope. Stayed there until there was no question but that the man died, suffocated right in front of everyone, wimpy fellow officers protecting the killer. Really bad.
 

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Well the court of XD public opinion has ruled.


I say we let the evidence prove or disprove who did what etc.

However that requires seeing beyond b&w which seems to be prevalent here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well the court of XD public opinion has ruled.


I say we let the evidence prove or disprove who did what etc.

However that requires seeing beyond b&w which seems to be prevalent here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Did you watch the video, or just declaring us wrong based on your shape of your ass?
 

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I haven’t seen video or photos but was the guy on his back when the officer had a knee in his neck? Just trying to think how he was choked out. Most of the time they make you lay down on tour stomach while they cuff/detain you. That means his head would have been to one side exposing one side of his neck. If that is the case, the other side of his neck should be supplying blood and O2.
This exactly. Pre existing condition caused this death?
 

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Did you watch the video, or just declaring us wrong based on your shape of your ass?
A group of cops murdered his friends young son at a trailer park by shooting at an unarmed woman they were chasing. They killed the unarmed woman and killed the child inside the trailer that was the backstop for their mag dump.
He gave them a pass also.

No charges filed on any of the cops. Just a tragic accident.
 
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