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No...he didn’t say “.410 size BB’s”...he said “410 bb's”, which, incidentally, is the exact number of #8 pellets in a 1oz 12ga load (by weight).

And there are no .410 pellets extant for shotguns.

By all evidence shown, he's talking about using trap loads for defense.
That's hilarious. I would have never read it that way...as a BB count instead of a caliber...but since you pointed it out, that's entirely plausible...and a horrible mistake if true!
 
The Sig P365 SAS is tempting me as well.
Last year I had thought about getting the P320 until they did the recall. I just started researching the P365XL which would be the way I would lean. Still dong research. The misses just veto'd the AR, even though I know we had the conversations. I think when I get an upright safe she will be more comfortable knowing no one has quick access to it.

Mean while, when I get some time I am going to stop by a few locals and take a peek at the P365XL
 
Discussion starter · #64 ·
I still am intrigued by the hellcat and the P365. For comparison my PM9 fully loaded weighs 19.6 ounces and is about at my comfort limit for a pocket pistol. If I go heavier it's going on the belt. And that's where a longer barrel helps me with concealment, sight radius, and with my G48 thin enough to conceal even with the full grip. And if the Shield arms S15 really works it becomes a vegetarian G19 ;)

So these 1" or thinner 4" height pistols are in a sweet spot for the pocket if weight isn't an issue. On the belt I'd probably want a longer barrel and grip, since I don't do appendix. Probably would be real good for those that do, though.

Oh, and this comparison says to me the Mossberg pistol is dead meat: Springfield Hellcat Micro Compact vs Mossberg MC1sc size comparison | Handgun Hero

I *still* want a hellcat. Maybe they will make a 17 round hellcat "sabertooth"
the Sabertooth is a Hellcat the same size as a Glock 19.......
 
Last year I had thought about getting the P320 until they did the recall. I just started researching the P365XL which would be the way I would lean. Still dong research. The misses just veto'd the AR, even though I know we had the conversations. I think when I get an upright safe she will be more comfortable knowing no one has quick access to it.

Mean while, when I get some time I am going to stop by a few locals and take a peek at the P365XL
Forget all that... Go ahead and get yourself an upright safe and get an AR !...
 
Forget all that... Go ahead and get yourself an upright safe and get an AR !...
We just put our house on the market and moving soon. When we get to the new place, it's tops on my agenda. We just discovered she had things she wanted me to put in my small safe yesterday. Imagine that?
 
I think this gun is a pretty big deal. Capacity, size, OSP, co-witness high visibility sights. That’s a lot of nice features. And made in Croatia...big deal. Actually I’d say good deal. HS Produkt has been making great handguns going on 30 years and production and sales have exploded for them since partnering with Springfield. Anyone that thinks a quality red dot isn’t good for concealed carry has not used a red dot at all or long enough to develop even average proficiency with it. You have to perfect your form with it to see the dot quickly. And that takes many, many repetitions to get their. But once you do is it ever deadly. The people that haven’t become proficient yet even with irons I’m sure find a red dot truly frustrating. Draw it a few times with poor technique, can’t find the dot, and say these things suck and throw in the towel. Their loss.
 
A few things I've notice -

1)The sight: Yes they are awesome looking but they appear taller than normal but not suppressor height (maybe they are). Also possibly the optic cut is deeper to allow the optic to sit lower allowing co-witness through without the purchase a pair of obtrusively high sights. Both the standard and OSP model rear sights seem a bit different shaped; the OSP appears shorter in length possible due to having to move the dovetail rearward to make room for the optic cut-out(cover plate).

2) Bore axis: With the generous trigger guard undercut and high beavertail and lower profile slide it appears to have a considerably lower bore axis than when compared to the P365.

Just a couple more things I noticed that I don't recall reading about.
 
Ok here is what we know on the Hellcat beyond what Springfield is telling you. This pistol is basically a double stack XDS—well really 1.5 stack. Just like the Sig P365 is not a true double stack, but not a single stack either. This adds to the capacity without making the grip so big. The Hellcat is based off a three pin Glock just like the XDS. The Hellcat is a simpler weapon with less parts than the XDS and will be more reliable as far as parts breaking. For example, I have seen the loaded chamber indicator break multiple times on the XDS, XD, & XDM. You can't break a simple peep hole. No Grip Safety, for some reason, was the biggest complaint for the XD/XDM/XDS. Who knows how true of a problem it really is, but people read complaints on the 1911 and hear how the gun can fail if you don't depress the safety blah blah blah. So that same skepticism is transferred to the XD's. This should please that crowed of people and again gives less stuff to break. The sights, on the initial two pistols for release, have night sights. This is the number one upgrade people do for their pistols. Well, the Hellcat already has them. The reversible mag release—yes it is reversible—is not really the story here. Another big complaint on the XDS is the amount of pressure that it takes to release the magazine. The mag release gets "stuck" and is mushy....not positive. The Hellcat looks like an improvement. Something closer to a 1911 then the rotating XDS mag catch. No Grip Zone—sorry Springfield you deserve that.


View attachment 706745
I like the sights & looking forward to giving it a try. However, I am concerned about the sticky mag release because I already have that issue with my XDS 3.3 9mm. Any suggestions on how to fix the sticky mag?
 
Ok here is what we know on the Hellcat beyond what Springfield is telling you. This pistol is basically a double stack XDS—well really 1.5 stack. Just like the Sig P365 is not a true double stack, but not a single stack either. This adds to the capacity without making the grip so big. The Hellcat is based off a three pin Glock just like the XDS. The Hellcat is a simpler weapon with less parts than the XDS and will be more reliable as far as parts breaking. For example, I have seen the loaded chamber indicator break multiple times on the XDS, XD, & XDM. You can't break a simple peep hole. No Grip Safety, for some reason, was the biggest complaint for the XD/XDM/XDS. Who knows how true of a problem it really is, but people read complaints on the 1911 and hear how the gun can fail if you don't depress the safety blah blah blah. So that same skepticism is transferred to the XD's. This should please that crowed of people and again gives less stuff to break. The sights, on the initial two pistols for release, have night sights. This is the number one upgrade people do for their pistols. Well, the Hellcat already has them. The reversible mag release—yes it is reversible—is not really the story here. Another big complaint on the XDS is the amount of pressure that it takes to release the magazine. The mag release gets "stuck" and is mushy....not positive. The Hellcat looks like an improvement. Something closer to a 1911 then the rotating XDS mag catch. No Grip Zone—sorry Springfield you deserve that.


View attachment 706745
I like the sights & looking forward to giving it a try. However, I am concerned about the sticky mag release because I already have that issue with my XDS 3.3 9mm. Any suggestions on how to fix the sticky mag?
 
I think James was saying that the complaint with the XDS is the sticky mag release, and that the Hellcat uses a different design (Glock-style) to fix that problem. So it should automatically be better. Check his video in the other thread for more info.
 
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