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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
 

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You shot 5 rounds though...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ummm. Nope. It's an echo. (Indoor range)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Not that it matters, the point was to report on a new sight presentation, but you really think that I shot 5 rounds in half a second - 3 exactly where I was aiming and 2 totally off the paper? Or that I'm straight up lying about it? Surely no one is that small of person to go out of the way to post something that dishonest/pointless. Either way, to those who might find their way to this video looking for opinions on the the XS Big Dot Sights, I assure you that the group was a live 3 round shot. I'll take the disbelief as a compliment but considering that I'm a full time firearms instructor, I should be able to deploy a handgun at a high level of competency.
 

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How well do you do at-range with the XS Big Dot?

I find that to be where I dislike it.

I love it in various applications - just not at-distance: and this is really probably a limitation that I (as an individual) put on it more than anything else, since I do not have routine access to the resources necessary to train for it that way. Only one indoor range in my area even goes out to a true 25 yards.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've only shot it at my indoor range at work and that limits me to 25 yards. I switched from Trijicon HD night sights which also have a fairly large front post, although not as large as the XSs. So I'm used to shooting slower precision shots at small targets or relatively long distance targets by covering the intended poi with the center of the post. More is covered with the XS front sight than was with the HDs and the sight picture is a little different in terms of poi/poa but it is reasonably accurate in combat groupings at 25 yards and in. The likelihood of taking a shot with a sidearm at greater than 25 yards is nearly infinitesimal. I'll gladly sacrifice 25+ yardage speed to add much more speed at 15 yards and closer.
 

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So how well does the vertical and horizontal alignment work for speed and accuracy Vs a regular style sight?
And dude come on thinking he shot five times. Give me a break. Obviously its three shots. On target where they're supposed to be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I subscribe to Paul Gomez's view on statistics. :) We simply see this differently, and I understand where you're coming from.


Gomez makes a lot of good points and he's probably forgotten more than most people will ever know on the subject but the "loss" in long distance accuracy with the XS sights has been over stated on the interwebz. Like most things, it's a training issue that can be overcome with fully understanding the appropriate long distance sight alignment with "lollypop" sights. The gain in speed is way more noticeable than any loss of accuracy, especially in a combat scenario. (my humble but tested opinion).



So how well does the vertical and horizontal alignment work for speed and accuracy Vs a regular style sight?
And dude come on thinking he shot five times. Give me a break. Obviously its three shots. On target where they're supposed to be.
It is much faster to pick up the larger front sight for one thing but more importantly, you can "ride" the front sight down through the shot cycle faster making a "lollypop" than you can riding it down to make a typical "notch and post" alignment. This is ultimately what makes follow up shots come more quickly while maintaining combat accuracy. The concept that this sort of sight degrades accuracy is sort of a misconception. As you can see in the video, the two chest shots were about an inch or so apart. That's about as good as you can ever hope for in a gun fight. Obviously the added movement and stress of a gunfight isn't reflected in the range practice but the group does demonstrate that real world accuracy is not sacrificed with the XS style of sight.
 

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...the "loss" in long distance accuracy with the XS sights has been over stated on the interwebz. Like most things, it's a training issue that can be overcome with fully understanding the appropriate long distance sight alignment with "lollypop" sights.
Exactly, I've seen people take really long shots, accurately, with the XS - but they train with it (much) more than I do mine.

The gain in speed is way more noticeable than any loss of accuracy, especially in a combat scenario. (my humble but tested opinion).
What's the quantitative measures?

I'm not that great of a shooter (I find that either I need the sights or I don't) - and I haven't practiced enough with my XS-equipped gun...neither of which would make it fair if I were to push towards a metric/standard.

I'd be interested to know what the differences you see are, in terms of the BSA template.

As you can see in the video, the two chest shots were about an inch or so apart.
What was the distance-to-target?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Exactly, I've seen people take really long shots, accurately, with the XS - but they train with it more than I do mine.



What's the quantitative measures?

I'm not that great of a shooter (I find that either I need the sights or I don't) - and I haven't practiced enough with my XS-equipped gun...neither of which would make it fair if I were to push towards a metric/standard.

I'd be interested to know what the differences you see are, in terms of the BSA template.



What was the distance-to-target?
I'm actually planning on doing a side by side evaluation of a notch and post equipped weapon with the XS equipped weapon at various distances to make it less qualitative. The distance on the video around 5 yards, maybe a little less.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think it's also worth mentioning that shooting at true "combat effective speed" at a level that gives you a tangible edge with consistency is a difficult to acquire skill that is very perishable. That isn't to say that a hobbiest approach to combat marksmanship isn't going to deliver an edge, only that a "professional edge" requires abilities that I rarely see at a public range. Achieving that skill has way more to do with combat speed than any sight system can offer. The ability to "bounce" a front sight on a target while maintaining environmental perspective and deciding to fire each shot rather than snapping into a rhythm without thought is hard (or at least it's very hard for me).

That's where the serious shooter should start, not with trying various types of sights. IMO

I recommend taking as many classes as you can afford and read some books. The first book I would recommend is "Surgical Speed Shooting" by Andy Stanford.
 

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I'm actually planning on doing a side by side evaluation of a notch and post equipped weapon with the XS equipped weapon at various distances to make it less qualitative. The distance on the video around 5 yards, maybe a little less.
The difficulty I have in reconciling the XS Big Dot is that, as you've pointed out in your video, while those shots are speedy and tight, it's something that can also be done without sights at all. Point-shooting instructors typically work to - in their *first* class (taking point-shooting novices to point-shooting beginners) - have their students shooting "fist-sized" (2.5-3") groups at 5 yards.

This is why as I age and my already bad eyesight starts to worsen, I've been engaged in an internal debate about options like the XS (especially as I know some who pair it with conventional rears).

The ability to "bounce" a front sight on a target while maintaining environmental perspective and deciding to fire each shot rather than snapping into a rhythm without thought is hard (or at least it's very hard for me).
I find it very hard to do with targets that are being manipulated by instructors - I tend to get "sucked in" way too easily.

That's where the serious shooter should start, not with trying various types of sights. IMO
Always, and well-said.

Shooting starts in the mind. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The difficulty I have in reconciling the XS Big Dot is that, as you've pointed out in your video, while those shots are speedy and tight, it's something that can also be done without sights at all. Point-shooting instructors typically work to - in their *first* class (taking point-shooting novices to point-shooting beginners) - have their students shooting "fist-sized" (2.5-3") groups at 5 yards.

This is why as I age and my already bad eyesight starts to worsen, I've been engaged in an internal debate about options like the XS (especially as I know some who pair it with conventional rears).



I find it very hard to do with targets that are being manipulated by instructors - I tend to get "sucked in" way too easily.



Always, and well-said.

Shooting starts in the mind. :)
Ah, real conversations on the internet with strangers that don't end in emotionally fueled arguments. Refreshing.
 

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^ :lol: I've been on the Intraw3bz too long to be reactive. :lol:

Besides, experience has taught me that the keyboard and screen can so easily mess-up intent/tone: I really think we were pushing it with the telephone, and that God really didn't intend for us to communicate to each other this way. :lol:

Also, it's a small world. I've met and made real-life friends with a lot of my online friends. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, if you're ever in Birmingham, look me up. I've got the keys to a free privately owned indoor range. You can try the XS sights yourself, lol.
 

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:) I've tried, and still use in certain applications.

I'm sure that as my eyesight changes over the next decade or so, something drastic will also need to change in terms of my sight preferences.

But thanks for the invite, though! :) If you're ever in a class in the Cleveland area, pass me a PM - I might already be there! :lol:
 

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I've often flirted with the idea of XS Big dots...
I just put HDs on my G33.

I've always read Big Dots weren't good for distance.
But then I generally don't ever shoot past 25 yards.
Honestly more in the 7 to 10 yard range.

Just wondering what gun you had them on?
Sig in DA?
Striker fired of some kind?

And thanks for the report.
You've got me rethinking XS for the G26...:mrgreen:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I've often flirted with the idea of XS Big dots...
I just put HDs on my G33.

I've always read Big Dots weren't good for distance.
But then I generally don't ever shoot past 25 yards.
Honestly more in the 7 to 10 yard range.

Just wondering what gun you had them on?
Sig in DA?
Striker fired of some kind?

And thanks for the report.
You've got me rethinking XS for the G26...:mrgreen:
XD 40 Tactical.
 
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