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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

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Damn! Eyes go a bit bug eyed reading all that. That read makes me even happier that im carrying a .45 :D thanks for the link!
 

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100% agree with the report; glad I carry an XD 45 Tactical everyday, everywhere. Period.
 

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That article was written in 2006 and things have changed quite a bit in ammo.

However, what doesn't change is physics. Force is equal to mass times acceleration. So common sense dictates we would want more force to end a conflict. This can come from a heavy bullet going fast or many light bullets going fast or many heavy bullets going slow. At the end of the day, it is still shot placement and he repeats that 1000 times.
 

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100% agree with the report; glad I carry an XD 45 Tactical everyday, everywhere. Period.
+1
I carry a 45 because just like me it is big and slow but once it gets moving it is hard to stop.
 

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If you are depending upon bullet expansion to work to do its job you are very ill-informed and carrying the wrong caliber. The only thing you can reasonably expect a bullet to do is bore a hole the same size it is. Go for the biggest diameter possible. I would really like to carry a .357 semi auto but they are HUGE.

45 or bust.
 

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That article was written in 2006 and things have changed quite a bit in ammo.

However, what doesn't change is physics. Force is equal to mass times acceleration. So common sense dictates we would want more force to end a conflict. This can come from a heavy bullet going fast or many light bullets going fast or many heavy bullets going slow. At the end of the day, it is still shot placement and he repeats that 1000 times.
Human physiology has changed little since then too. Force does not do damage. Loss of blood, and the subsequent drop in blood pressure is what causes incapacitation.
 

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I'm pretty sure an appropriate amout of force to the heart or brain would also cause someone to be instantly incompacitated as well lol.
 

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and 80 percent of hand gun wounds dont kill. Its shot placement thats all. If you really think there is a big difference between 9mm and 45 your kidding yourself. I like both calibers but if you dont hit in the right spot it doesnt matter what your using.
 

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and 80 percent of hand gun wounds dont kill. Its shot placement thats all. If you really think there is a big difference between 9mm and 45 your kidding yourself. I like both calibers but if you dont hit in the right spot it doesnt matter what your using.
If you do hit the right spot, it may matter what you're using:

So let me give a few thoughts here. First, as you've pretty well guessed by now, I'm a big fan of the .40 and .45 for personal defense, and for the same reasons. They're both big, slow-moving bullets. Of the two, I think big is more important. As I've said before, I want something that will plow through bone and keep going, not skip off of it. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a .380 or 9mm strike bone on a well-placed shot and skip off in a non-vital direction, leaving the BG free to return fire. With the .40 and .45, this seldom happens. Bone is in the body for basically two reasons--to give support as with the legs and spinal column and to protect major organs, such as the ribs protecting the heart or the skull protecting the brain. Skip a bullet off a support bone, such as the leg, and the BG will keep shooting. Break it, like you generally do with a .40 or .45, and the BG is going to hit the pavement and your chances of survival increase dramatically. It's the same with a shot to the chest. Skip a 9mm off the sternum (breastbone) and the fight continues; plow through the sternum with a .45 and, trust me, the fight is over. I'm just convinced that all things being equal, bigger is better when it comes to bullet size.
Unless you're good enough that you can shoot between bones.
 

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I have a .45 and 9mm. I carry my 9mm anytime I can for self defense, and feel 100% confident it would do the job. I love the .45 but only carry it when I am hunting. The author sounds a little bit biased to me. If I were to choose which caliber to get shot with between the 9mm, .40 or .45, it would be none of them. I don't think any of them are worse or better than the other. I have shot all three and love every one of them and without a doubt know that anyone of them could do the job.
 

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His thoughts were counter of some of you posters. Did you read what he recommended as #1, a shotgun with any type of ammo including birdshot. #2 any rifle except a 22. #3 was the 45 handgun.
 

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The author says dont carry a 9mm or .380 because they are ineffective and that he thinks .40 and .45 is where its at.

But then says multiple times that most of the shooting deaths he gets are from 9mm and .380 :?

Most of that 4500 word post is "I think" and opinion.Hes a mortician,not a firearms or ballistics expert.
 

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The author says dont carry a 9mm or .380 because they are ineffective and that he thinks .40 and .45 is where its at.

But then says multiple times that most of the shooting deaths he gets are from 9mm and .380 :?

Most of that 4500 word post is "I think" and opinion.Hes a mortician,not a firearms or ballistics expert.

Very true. It just sounds like hes very against 9mm and .380. Kinda weird
 

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great just when I get minute of bad guy... now I gotta learn to hit between the bones. :shock:

Yes, that was precisely my point. Everybody needs to learn to shoot between bones, if you don't already have the ability.

That's why I carry a .22. Because being able to shoot a .22 between a guy's ribs and guarantee that it will go into his heart and not deflect is better than shooting a guy with a 45 and having the bullet break a rib on the way in, go through the heart, and break a rib on the way out.
 

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The author says dont carry a 9mm or .380 because they are ineffective and that he thinks .40 and .45 is where its at.

But then says multiple times that most of the shooting deaths he gets are from 9mm and .380 :?

Most of that 4500 word post is "I think" and opinion.Hes a mortician,not a firearms or ballistics expert.
Read again. .40 & .45 create the most damage and incapacitate with less rounds. He also state multiple rounds in a corpse. Multiple being a lot more than 2 because it takes more rounds to stop the fight.
Yes, the .380 and 9mm will do the job, but usually multiple hits are required as opposed to single hits with a .40 or .45
First, as you've pretty well guessed by now, I'm a big fan of the .40 and .45 for personal defense, and for the same reasons. They're both big, slow-moving bullets. Of the two, I think big is more important. As I've said before, I want something that will plow through bone and keep going, not skip off of it. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a .380 or 9mm strike bone on a well-placed shot and skip off in a non-vital direction, leaving the BG free to return fire. With the .40 and .45, this seldom happens. Bone is in the body for basically two reasons--to give support as with the legs and spinal column and to protect major organs, such as the ribs protecting the heart or the skull protecting the brain. Skip a bullet off a support bone, such as the leg, and the BG will keep shooting. Break it, like you generally do with a .40 or .45, and the BG is going to hit the pavement and your chances of survival increase dramatically. It's the same with a shot to the chest. Skip a 9mm off the sternum (breastbone) and the fight continues; plow through the sternum with a .45 and, trust me, the fight is over. I'm just convinced that all things being equal, bigger is better when it comes to bullet size.
He states that 9mm & .38 are the most common.
Most BGs shy away from the larger calibers like the .40, .45, and certainly the .44. They're hard to conceal and harder still to shoot effectively. Most BGs don't take the time to learn to shoot ANY firearm effectively let alone the harder to shoot larger calibers, and I doubt that many of them have ever gone to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch.
First, Houston is mostly right in assuming that multiple rounds seen from the 9mm and .380 are from the higher magazine capacity and controllability of the two calibers. Again, however, much of it is due to the fact that these two calibers just aren't getting the job done before the other BG returns fire and sends our BG to gangbanger heaven. Yes, the shots were eventually lethal, but many times not immediately so. And, yes, they CAN BE an effective weapon IF placed in a lethal area and IF the bullet gets the job done once it gets there instead of skipping off in a non-lethal direction. My advice, however, is to get a larger caliber such as a .40 or .45, practice until you're comfortable with it, and use it as your carry gun, not the 9mm or .380. Practice will greatly reduce the first IF mentioned above, and a larger caliber will greatly reduce the other.
They're not contradictions. Smaller rounds are more popular because they're easier to handle (probably cheaper to get ammo for, too) hence why he sees the more. Bigger rounds aren't as popular and end the fight sooner.

Personally, I want the BG down quickly, not after emptying a magazine into him.
 

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Read again. .40 & .45 create the most damage and incapacitate with less rounds. He also state multiple rounds in a corpse. Multiple being a lot more than 2 because it takes more rounds to stop the fight.
He states that 9mm & .38 are the most common.
They're not contradictions. Smaller rounds are more popular because they're easier to handle (probably cheaper to get ammo for, too) hence why he sees the more. Bigger rounds aren't as popular and end the fight sooner.

Personally, I want the BG down quickly, not after emptying a magazine into him.
Wrong answer... look at penetration data for 9mm, .40 cal, and .45 cal... surprisingly they are all about the same, and there is no "energy dump" with handgun rounds, they dont have high enough velocities to create TC damage, you get penetration and hole size, thats it. That means you dont get more damage with a larger round, especially when you factor in that newer JHP rounds of the 9, 40, and 45 have VERY close expansion rates, 9 and 40 in some cases are almost identical. Now, 40 and 45 do have more energy to break through solid objects due to them being heavier, but all three have the required amount of energy to break bone.
 

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Alot of talk from people saying "Learn to shoot between the bones" are kind of hard to take considering there are a huge majority of members on here that have never had to defend themselves to the point of killing another human being. I've trained myself to draw correctly, I've made decisions ahead of time, I carry to protect my family, but I know if I have to do it I'll be thankful I'm carrying a .45 because I know I'll be overwhelmed with adrenaline to calm down enough to get perfect shot placement. I'm hoping I never, ever have to use my weapon. But if for some reason I do, aiming for center of mass, with a big bullet.
 

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Anyone here volunteer to get shot in the skull with a measly .22 lr round... I mean if you guys really think the 9mm wont break bones and just ricochets off like you have an adamantium skeleton, then a .22 lr would just be a minor flesh wound if it hit your skull right?
 
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