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Discussion Starter #1
Like a lot of folks I am looking into a pocket gun since I am almost always wearing shorts rather than long pants.
I very rarely do documents but I put one together last night comparing the specs from the contenders I am interested in as well as the popular Walther P22 for comparison.
The formatting will probobly get weird, but here goes.

Subcompact Pistol Comparisons

  • Name************Weight****Length*****Height*****Width*****Mag Capacity*****Special features

  • Taurus 709 Slim****19.0oz****6.25"******4.53"******0.96*****7+1***********LCI, Adjustable sights, manual safety, second strike.

  • Sig P290*******20.oz no mag**5.5"******3.9"*******0.90"*****6+1***********Ambi mag release, night sights.

  • Kahr CM-9****14oz, 15.9 w/mag**5.42"***4.0"*******0.90"*****6+1*************DAO like smooth trigger

  • Walther P22***15.1 no mag****6.3*******4.5********1.1********10**********Changeable back straps, true DA/SA, Ambi safety, Ambi mag, Adjustable sights.


  • Score How many categories does each pistol win

  • Taurus 709 Slim*******5*******Capacity, Adjustable Sights, LCI, Manual Safety, Second strike.
  • Sig P290************4********Height, Width, Ambi mag release, Night sights.
  • Kahr CM-9***********4********Weight, Length, Trigger


  • Any clear wins

  • Kahr CM-9 wins in weight
  • Taurus 709 Slim wins in capacity, features
  • Sig P290 wins with night sights

  • Main Attributes of a sub-Compact/Pocket pistol

  • Size
  • Weight


  • Winner

  • Kahr CM-9, try to get version with LCI and safety.
 

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I read your title and started reading your post, and thought, "Is he going to try and carry an XD SC in his pocket?"

Kahr does seem to stand out in my mind also.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I read your title and started reading your post, and thought, "Is he going to try and carry an XD SC in his pocket?"

Kahr does seem to stand out in my mind also.
or am I just glad to see you? lol

Yeah I didn't know much about Kahr Arms but apparently they are the pistol arm of Thompson. I was pretty impressed with the solidity of the CW-45 when I handled it on Friday, the weight seems to be put to good use. I don't know how it shoots but the trigger is like buttah and if it had a safety I'd pick it over my lil buddy the Bersa 45 Ultra Compact, it's very slim for a 45.
In MY mind, a pocket pistol HAS to have a safety, and CM-9s with the safety seem as rare as hens teeth.
 

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Pocket is NEVER quick enough presentation IMO. Hence my XD40sc rides safely/securely in my CB Supertuck.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Pocket is NEVER quick enough presentation IMO. Hence my XD40sc rides safely/securely in my CB Supertuck.
That's fine if you're wearin a belt.

Some more research has yielded that the CM-9 is not currently available with the LCI and thumb safety. For now this is only available in the PM-9 for the nominal $200-$300 more for that model.
 

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Discussion Starter #7

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Some more research has yielded that the CM-9 is not currently available with the LCI and thumb safety. For now this is only available in the PM-9 for the nominal $200-$300 more for that model.
I was looking at the same scenario and ran into the same problem. Preferred the LCI with thumb safety.

I ended up ordering the Ruger LC9. On paper, it's longer, but looking at them it doesn't appear to be the .62" difference. I remember reading somewhere that Kahr doesn't use a box method for overall length but rather either the slide or frame, I forget which.

The LC9 has 7+1 capacity standard. BTW, if you're not aware, there is a 7rd mag available for the CM9 and Kahr has a limited time mail-in offer to get one when you buy a new CM9.

Here's the specs. Ruger’s New LC9 Compact 9mm Pocket Pistol

If you don't like the magazine release it can be disabled. Some don't like the looks, personally I do, but to me that's irrelavant anyway; an ugly gun can be just as effective as a pretty one.

I didn't have the chance to range test one, but it felt great in my hand. I was able to get a pinky on it.

Buds has a labor day sale right now $349.
 

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The other nice thing about the LC9, is it uses a 3 dot sight like my XDm, so I figure it will be easier to switch between the two.
 

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Pocket is NEVER quick enough presentation IMO. Hence my XD40sc rides safely/securely in my CB Supertuck.

I carry one in the pocket and one IWB.

No presentation will ever be faster than the one where your hand is on the pistol already. Hand in pocket, hand on pistol. No one knows the better you are ready. Try standing in line at the stop and rob with your pistol IWB in the super untuckable tucked whizzer holster. You might look a little silly. Just sayin.....
 

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Boris, you remind me of this movie clip.

NSFW with some language

 

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Boris, you remind me of this movie clip.

NSFW with some language

#7. "There was a Fire Fight!" - YouTube

too funny. I dont watch many movies. All I know is alot of people get their training and beliefs on what happens when someone is shot from them.

I know guys that wear a gun under the arm like when it was popular back in the day. Cross arms with hand on primary, works good too.

carrying a gun will not make you more safe if thats what you think a gun will do for you. 99.9% of all the gunfights you might get in can be avoided by being aware and knowing what you will do before you do it. If you rely on pure reaction to survive, well all I have to say is action is always faster than reaction. If you have to react to a situation you have already lost.......

To the OP

If you pick a pistol based on paper stats you will most likely endup with the worst choice for you. Its like picking carry ammo by reading a ballistics table.

Go shoot as many as you can, at the very least handle them all......
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Is that Boondock Saints 2?


To the OP

If you pick a pistol based on paper stats you will most likely endup with the worst choice for you. Its like picking carry ammo by reading a ballistics table.

Go shoot as many as you can, at the very least handle them all......
Yeah that's why I got rid of my 709, great gun, packed to the brim with features, but it just wasn't "my gun" if you know what I mean.
As far as I know there isn't a rental range less than an hour or more away from me.

The Rugers are simply not going to happen. I have to at least like a gun a little before I plunk down money on it, and I have never liked anything from ruger, not even my 10/22. The 10/22 sits in the downstairs gun safe with it's new scope and new stock, while the 40+ year old Marlin it was supposed to replace is still my everyday 22 it's more accurate and more reliable than the Ruger.

An IWB is fine if you're out somewhere in long pants etc but most of the time when I need a gun it's here at home, when I'm out doing some yardwork and some critter on two, four or zero legs walks up on me.
This IS the meth capitol of the US and I want something I can literally carry 24/7. If I were to go IWB I would most likely carry the XD-40Compact I made, pretty sweet, but too big and heavy for a pocket.

B-C-L, I've seen the 7rnd mag for the Kahr it's pretty ugly and I have read they have some issues over on Kahrtalk. I don't need a mag with one extra round anyway, 5 extra would be a great re-load like my XD Subies but I can most likely get the point across with six ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
carrying a gun will not make you more safe if thats what you think a gun will do for you. 99.9% of all the gunfights you might get in can be avoided by being aware and knowing what you will do before you do it. If you rely on pure reaction to survive, well all I have to say is action is always faster than reaction. If you have to react to a situation you have already lost.......
This is kind of a standard belief of mine.
I read a quote the other day that said "a superior pilot is a pilot that uses his superior judgement to avoid displaying his superior flying skills". Most conflicts are lost or won before the fight starts.
 

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I guess I need to make a slight disclaimer as to the lack of an unbiased point of view ...but her's my reply to the OP's 'quest'! I just purchased a Kahr CM9 (unfortunately prior to the free mag offer) ...and shot it approx. 70 rounds at the gun range for it's maiden test! THis is one, well-crafted handgun ...with a proven track record. The trigger is 'smooth' ..very smooth ...shooting is extremely 'accurate' (especially for a 3" barrel handgun) ....it doesn't recoil anywhere near as badly as it's competitors (as reported by practically everyone that has shot and compared them) ....and made to extremely high standards and tolerances! The LC9 ...by nearly all accounts isn't even in the same league as a CM9 ...or the pricier PM9! That last point being made/reported by many a LC9 owners ...or more accurately 'former' LC9 owners!

I was looking at the same scenario and ran into the same problem. Preferred the LCI with thumb safety.

I ended up ordering the Ruger LC9. On paper, it's longer, but looking at them it doesn't appear to be the .62" difference. I remember reading somewhere that Kahr doesn't use a box method for overall length but rather either the slide or frame, I forget which.

The LC9 has 7+1 capacity standard. BTW, if you're not aware, there is a 7rd mag available for the CM9 and Kahr has a limited time mail-in offer to get one when you buy a new CM9.

Here's the specs. Ruger’s New LC9 Compact 9mm Pocket Pistol

If you don't like the magazine release it can be disabled. Some don't like the looks, personally I do, but to me that's irrelavant anyway; an ugly gun can be just as effective as a pretty one.

I didn't have the chance to range test one, but it felt great in my hand. I was able to get a pinky on it.

Buds has a labor day sale right now $349.
Starting from the top! ...but
Points in comparison to the Kahr:
  • Thumb safety? Not necessary since the CM/PM9 have an internal striker block 'safety' that coupled with it's realtively long ..but very smooth trigger is plenty safe enough for CCW ...with a chambered round!
  • Maybe you need to read a 'little more' by doing a better internet search in the reviews and opinions by actual gun owners who own ...or have owned handguns in your target category! There's no such thing as being too well informed!
    You might also want to do more than a 'specs on paper' comparison by actually going to a gun shop and putting the prospective handguns next to each other in a 'real-life' side by side visual and tactile comparison!
  • Specs are like 'statistics' ...they have no real life meaning when taken completely out of context!
  • Tell me why again one would want to "disable" the magazine release ...and why this function should even be considered if the handgun was designed properly to begin with.
  • Simply put! It needs to feel much more than "great in my hand"! For instance, I checked out a Sig P290 during my 'research' before settling on a Kahr. It "felt good in my hand" ...that was until I racked the slide the first time ...and had the hammer pinch a blood blister on the web between my thumb and forefinger. That didn't feel so good!

The other nice thing about the LC9, is it uses a 3 dot sight like my XDm, so I figure it will be easier to switch between the two.
An absolutely inconsequential feature in most cases! Several of my handguns have 'differing' sights ...from my XDM & my Walther PPS ...to my Micro Desert Eagle ...my Browning 22 ....and now ....my 'rear' bar/ 'front' dot CM9!

I didn't totally even remember which type of sights my Kahr had until reading a forum post ...after my very successful first trip to the gun range shooting my Kahr. I was actually a little surprised to learn that my Kahr has bar/dot sights ...as opposed to the traditional 3-dot sights on the market. Having found the sighting and shooting of my Kahr to be extremely accurate ..more-so ...IMO than my Walther (at least for me to shoot) ...there must be something 'positive' to the bar/dot sighting system! When you think about it ...it's much easier to line 2 things/objects up consistently and accurately in a straight line ...than doing the same with 3 objects ...even if 2 of them (rear sight) are fixed in the same place. On a 3-dot system ...you need to make sure the spacing is equally center ...as well as up and down in the sight path! Having shot with both ...and I admit that I'm not nearly an expert ...I would have to say that I prefer the bar/dot system on the handguns I own.

...
To the OP

If you pick a pistol based on paper stats you will most likely endup with the worst choice for you. Its like picking carry ammo by reading a ballistics table.

Go shoot as many as you can, at the very least handle them all......
Excellent and wise advise! ;)

I hope my post didn't come across as to blunt or condescending. It wasn't meant to be! It was meant to be instructional ...and hopefully precautionary ...not only for the above quoted member...but anyone else that reads this thread! ;)

And ...congrats to the OP for making a good choice in the Kahr! And ...to those interested in a Kahr! There is actually another handgun forum ...just for Kahr owners...or prospective owners ...coincidently titled ....you guessed it kahrtalk.com ....who would of thunk it! :p There's a wealth of info over there on Kahrs!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
bill, You can't sell me any harder on the Kahrs, I handled the CW-45 at the gunshop last week and was very impressed, I will at some point probobly own a CW-45 and it's not like I'm short on 45 pistols lol.
For a pocket pistol the Kahr CM-9 needs a stiffer trigger or a thumb safety, that's all, I like it a lot and will probobly have one at some point.

The Sig P290, I dunno, kind of seems toy-like, the replaceable side panels don't help and I saw a review where the shooter got a nasty bleeding gouge in his thumb from the slide-stop lever.
 

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  • Maybe you need to read a 'little more' by doing a better internet search in the reviews and opinions by actual gun owners who own ...or have owned handguns in your target category! There's no such thing as being too well informed!

  • You might also want to do more than a 'specs on paper' comparison by actually going to a gun shop and putting the prospective handguns next to each other in a 'real-life' side by side visual and tactile comparison!
  • Specs are like 'statistics' ...they have no real life meaning when taken completely out of context!
  • Tell me why again one would want to "disable" the magazine release ...and why this function should even be considered if the handgun was designed properly to begin with.
I don't disagree with your comment about specs and context. Actually I have done a ton of research on the currently available pocket 9s. I didn't just rely on paper specs. or just a handful of internet reviews. I've tons of hours under my belt. And I take everything with a grain of salt. Some fell by the way-side because of questionable reliability, some questionable customer service, others for different reasons. I've bought every magazine publication I could get my hands on that reviewed these guns as well. I handled my top considerations in the store and even side by side.

The only thing I couldn't do is shoot the LC9. Yes, would have loved too, but didn't want to wait an undetermined amount time until one was available for rent. I did shoot a PM9 as that was available (and some others). And I did dry fire the LC9. Which is why the CM9 and LC9 were both on my short list.

I'll share my experience once I've had a chance to range test it - good, bad, or ugly.

Enjoy your CM9. The PM9 I tested was a great gun. I wasn't dissing the CM9 at all. I was just bringing up an alternative to the OP that wasn't listed, since the CM9 he desired (LCI with manual safety) does not (at least yet) exist.
 

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I carry a PM9 in my shorts pocket everyday in the spring thru fall months....T-/Golf shirt here in the Tx heat. I carry in a DM Bullard (Azel, TX) leather pocket-wallet holster which has a leather hook cut into the top of holster......hand in pocket, pull gun clear of trigger guard and the hook catches the fabric of the pocket and you are out "cleanly". Not to be controversial, but personally I don't want a safety switch to flip when I have a great DA trigger with a long pull.....safely held in a very good rig with the trigger guarded......but, thaat's just me.
 

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I carry a PM9 in my shorts pocket everyday in the spring thru fall months....T-/Golf shirt here in the Tx heat. I carry in a DM Bullard (Azel, TX) leather pocket-wallet holster which has a leather hook cut into the top of holster......hand in pocket, pull gun clear of trigger guard and the hook catches the fabric of the pocket and you are out "cleanly". Not to be controversial, but personally I don't want a safety switch to flip when I have a great DA trigger with a long pull.....safely held in a very good rig with the trigger guarded......but, thaat's just me.
Yeah the manual safety is a featured hated by many. I may dispense using it when I'm carrying. Which is the nice thing... it can be turned off even before you holster. (It's actually easier to deactivate than activate). Right now I'm just not comfortable having none with something sitting so close to the family jewels. :)
 
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