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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone!
I am new to the forum and this is my first post. I am familiar with discussion boards and have done a few searches for what I am bringing up and havent found anything.

I purchased a XD-9 Sub Bi-Tone a couple of weeks ago. So far I have 150 Rounds through it and LOVE this gun. It has functioned perfectly so far. Here are some of my initial thoughts.
-It has a bit more kick than I thought...similar to some .40's I have shot.
-It is loud as hell. Three people asked me if it was a .40 or .45 @ the range today. :shock:
-It has a bit of muzzle flash...more than I expected but that may be the ammo I am shooting.
I am currently shooting Fiocchi ammo. I think it is the 115 grain.

The REAL reason I am making this post is that I read (on the net) that the sub compact's are not designed or recommended to shoot +P ammo.
I called Springfield and talked to one of their techs and they confirmed this. He said the short barrel and small frame were not designed for +P ammo.
I am honestly SHOCKED at this...what do other sub owners think about this?
At first I was thinking about just going ahead with the +P stuff..but at the same time I don't want a major malfunction either.
Others with the sub let me know what your experiences and beliefs are.

Thanks in advance.
 

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As with all +P ammunition in pistols not specifically listed as +P, use it spareingly. Put enough through it to make sure it functions properly and call it good.

Half the dopes at SA couldn't find their way out of an open closet...the others are great people.
 

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I agree w/ ampleworks, just use it and make sure it functions properly and then use it to carry.

I have shot about 50 rounds of +P+ and havent had 1 problem. I carry it everyday in my sub9. Think im gonna try some cor ball or whatever it is called next
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think I am going to try Winchester's Super-X line and I am going to purchase 200 rounds of Winchester Ranger (non +p)

I want to shoot at least 150 rounds of any type of "personal protection" ammunition before I consider it safe to use.

I have plenty of options outside of +P stuff so I might as well stay away from it if I can.

Thanks for your replys...if anyone else has other opinions please let me know.
 

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Has anybody chronographed +P out of a sub compact XD and compared to a standard load? I remember reading somewhere that in a short barreled gun a +P load doesn't get to burn completely in the pipe before the bullet exits, therefore it's just wasted energy. Can anybody lend any credence to this?
 

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I don't have a sub, but I am going to chrono 127 +p+ from a 4" sometime this week.

My idea for functionality is, get 2-3 boxes, make sure they're all from the same lot. Shoot 33 rounds out of each box, if no malfunctions, take the remaing rounds, put them in one box and make it your defense ammo.
 

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I have always been told that +p was fine in the subby - I have even seen an email saying it was ok from SA. I have shot plenty of +p out of mine and it worked fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I imagine it would be fine to shoot +P as well. I am just playing it safe. The XD's seem to be pretty solid guns. For that matter I have a Hi-Point that can and has handled +P all day long...in fact it is +P+ rated....hold your comments. :lol:

I just purchased 4 boxes of the Winchester Ranger RA9T 9mm Luger 147 gr. Ranger T-Series. I will see how that does. I imagine it will be fine....I HOPE to never REALLY have to use it anyways except for testing.
 

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I have to wonder what the determining factor is, as far as whether a pistol is rated for +P or not.
Is it the strength of the barrel?
The subcompact has a beefier barrel, in comparison with the service model.
Is it the recoil system?
Is it the frame?
How does any manufacturer know where to draw the line?
I can only wonder. sab
 

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For some reason, I seem to recall speaking with someone at SA last year when I bought my SC9, who said +P was ok. Guess I will call back.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
When I first bought the gun I did'nt think a thing about it. I came across a thread about the SC9 NOT being +P approved and figured I would call to verify and they told me not to shoot it.

I would not be one bit surprised if 5 people called and we got 5 different answers...or at least variations of the reason WHY we can or can't use +P...I am personally going to stay away from it until someone from SA tells me different.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
TomSwift said:
I remember reading somewhere that in a short barreled gun a +P load doesn't get to burn completely in the pipe before the bullet exits, therefore it's just wasted energy. Can anybody lend any credence to this?
I would actually like to know if this is true or not. That would be a great reason to not even want/need to use +P stuff in our SC's
 

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This is my email dated 1/26/04 to Springfield.
just bought a XD 9 compact and love it! My Glock and H & K buddies practically drooled on it. I looked the manual over numerous times and can't find the answer. Can I use +P or +P+ ammo such as Corbon, Speer Gold Dot, or Hydroshock?

Thanks,
Guy
This was their answer on 1/27/04.
Guy:

Your XD will be able to handle the +P or +P+ loads that you are wanting to shoot.

Thanks,

Drew Herbst
Customer Service Supervisor
Springfield Armory
420 West Main Street
Geneseo, IL 61254
1-800-680-6866 x.971
[email protected]
www.springfield-armory.com
I've put over 500 rounds of Gold Dot 124+p ammo thru my 9 sub to function test my carry ammo, and it eats them like candy.
 

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DJDan said:
TomSwift said:
I remember reading somewhere that in a short barreled gun a +P load doesn't get to burn completely in the pipe before the bullet exits, therefore it's just wasted energy. Can anybody lend any credence to this?
I would actually like to know if this is true or not. That would be a great reason to not even want/need to use +P stuff in our SC's
The shorter the barrel, the slower the bullet. +p and +p+ are used to drive the speed up, even in a shorter barrel. Is there wasted energy? Yes. There is also wasted energy in a 4" barrel compared to a 5", so what do you do, carry a Encore with a 14" barrel? If you want good standard pressure ammo for self defense, the ballistic guys highly rate Gold Dot 124, 147, and Golden Saber 147 for this purpose. Gold Dot 124+p has been rated slightly better, so that's what I use in my 9 sub.
 

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I shoot Ranget T 127 +p+ once a month, no problems!

:twisted:
 

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Hi DJDan, and everyone else!

I just called SA's customer service on this issue. I was told that +p is ok to shoot through my XD-9 subbie, although there was no mention as to using it sparingly or not. They did say NOT to use +p+ as it's "too hot."

Sometimes I wonder if SA gives their employees the SAME manual to look up answers from. Or if they're interpreting the manual wrong. Or if they even know what a gun is at all. I guess always getting a well-versed customer service person is a low probability. Giving consistent answers doesn't seem to be policy there at all. I'm beginning to question their knowledge on anything related to their own products. I think I agree w/ ampleworks' theory: half are idiots, half are great. I just wish it were possible to always connect w/ a customer service person who actually OWNS an SA XD, SHOOTS an XD, and knows about the XD line (without having to flip through the Question-Answer Manual).
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for your input! After reading that Rob Letham uses it in his XD sub I figured it would be ok to do....if anyone is given top notch info on the XD's it would be him.
 

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I currenty shoot S&B for practice ammo and corbon 115gr for social ammo. As the gun is also available in 40 S&W, which is a higher pressure cartridge (I think) I don't see any reason for some people to not recommend the hotter loads in 9mm. I'd guess that as this is a Croation designed gun it's spec'd for NATO which runs past +P+ for pressure.

I dug around quick and found some pressure ratings, don't know which testing method they are.
9mm............37,400 psi
9mm +P.......38,500 psi
9mm +P+.....40,000 psi generally
9mm NATO...42,000 psi

9mm "Proof load"... 49,9800 psi

I couldn't locate a 40 S&W rating or I would add that to the list. And hey, if I'm wrong about the pressure on the 40 S&W, then I'm wrong.

I couldn't locte any 357 sig pressures either. I recall that it is hotter than most other cartridges and it's NOT availble for the SC. So maybe I'm wrong and it's not spec'd for NATO?

I will state that I located these rating in an article in a book and am not positive of there reliablity. Just that I located them quick.

Steelheart
 

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TomSwift said:
Has anybody chronographed +P out of a sub compact XD and compared to a standard load? I remember reading somewhere that in a short barreled gun a +P load doesn't get to burn completely in the pipe before the bullet exits, therefore it's just wasted energy. Can anybody lend any credence to this?
I don't know of and tests specifically from the XD sub, but HERE is a test using different +P ammo from both a High Power and a G26.. About 3/4 of the way down, you will find the Velocity chart. As you can see, you will lose 25-106 ft/sec by using a 3.5in barrel over a 4.66in barrel.
 

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I just recieved this today & here is the answer I got from the manufacturer.

Our recommendation is to not use any +P ammo for any pistol that has a shortened barrel or aluminum frame. That is only our recommendation. Some people do use +P and have no problems. Keep in mind, that if anything happens to the pistol do to the use of +P ammo, we will not consider it a warranty issue. Let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns.



Thank you,



John Moe

Dealer Service Representative

Springfield Armory

420 West Main St.

Geneseo, IL 61254

800-680-6866
 
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