Springfield XD Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Can someone please explain to me what the differance is between a single or a double auction is? Thank you
Jerry :oops:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,970 Posts
In order to fire a handgun, two specific actions must take place. Step 1: The mainspring must be compressed to generate potential energy. This is often done by cocking the hammer. Some handguns, however, do not have hammers, and the mainspring is directly connected to a spring-loaded striker (the firing pin). Step 2: The mainspring must be released, converting the stored potential energy to mechanical energy. All handguns (revolvers, semi-automatic pistols, and Derringers) must perform these two steps in order to discharge the cartridge. The action of a handgun refers to the mechanism used to perform these steps.

There are three general types of actions commonly used on handguns, each performing the two basic steps slightly differently.

Single Action
When the trigger is pulled on a single action handgun, it performs only Step 2 -release of the hammer from its cocked position. In single action handguns, the hammer must be cocked manually (Step 1).

Double Action
When the trigger is pulled on a double action handgun, both Steps 1 and 2 are performed. The hammer is cocked and then released by pulling the trigger. Since the process of cocking the hammer compresses the mainspring, the force that must be applied to the trigger of a double action handgun is greater than that of a single action gun. The hammer of a double action handgun, however, can be manually cocked.

Double Action Only
Double action-only handguns function essentially the same way as double action handguns, except it is not possible to manually cock the hammer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Jerry,

While I was a little fuzzy on this myself, your answer is right there,...if you're familiar with the XD's

Double Action Only
Double action-only handguns function essentially the same way as double action handguns, except it is not possible to manually cock the hammer.


AFAIK There is no manual hammer on an XD. I have the SC-9, and most of the pics I've seen around here are of harmerless XD products.

Mark

PS Anyone else that knows more than myself (of which there are many) please correct this statement if it's wrong.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,098 Posts
a911scanner said:
Jerry,

While I was a little fuzzy on this myself, your answer is right there,...if you're familiar with the XD's

Double Action Only
Double action-only handguns function essentially the same way as double action handguns, except it is not possible to manually cock the hammer.


AFAIK There is no manual hammer on an XD. I have the SC-9, and most of the pics I've seen around here are of harmerless XD products.

Mark

PS Anyone else that knows more than myself (of which there are many) please correct this statement if it's wrong.
He's correct. All XDs are DA (double action only).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,420 Posts
With the exception of that tiny amount of rearward movement the striker makes when you pull the trigger, isn't racking the slide the same as "cocking" the gun?

I would think that would make the XD single action. Can't fire unless it's cocked first. Either you cock it, or the blowback action cocks it.

However, I KNOW the XDs are deemed "DAO". Just not sure why.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Ajames addressed this topic in a FAQ thread.

Is the XD double or single action?
The XD uses what SA calls a USA Action Trigger System. This trigger is in reality a single action trigger by definition since the XD when cocked, the firing pin is fully compressed and when you pull the trigger it releases the firing pin. Now to be fair to the XD its trigger is designed to have what feels like a military two stage trigger. The XD has a smooth long take up and then hits an area where a little more force is required and then a crisp trigger break. The reset of the trigger is also long, so during the triggers travel it mimics a double action with a trigger pull of about 4-5lbs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,801 Posts
[TASF said:
]

However, I KNOW the XDs are deemed "DAO". Just not sure why.
Not sure where you are getting this info.

The XDs are single action, with a trigger that has a "double action" feel as Old School explained.

The XD is always cocked before the trigger can be pulled (effectively)which strikes the firing pin which in turn hits the cartridge's primer...either by racking the slide manually to chamber the first round, or by the firing of the gun which causes (by blow back) the slide to be racked which cocks the hammer and sets it to be released by pulling the trigger. Since pulling the trigger does nothing to cock the gun, it is a single action gun.

Waki Qiwebis,
D.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,244 Posts
I agree with those that say the XD is a single action only pistol. No matter how the trigger is made to feel the gun's action functions like a single action only handgun. Even though the trigger has a double action only feel, the striker and sear function as a single action only. If it was a double action handgun then an operator could repeatedly pull the trigger to strike a faulty cartridge multiply times without manually resetting the striker. This double action function of multiple strikes is not possible with an XD. We all know that you must with draw the slide back manually to reset the striker. This is single action only no matter how much the the trigger may feel like a double action trigger.


Ramblin
mcb
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,260 Posts
Wheelguns are usually easier to classify than modern semi-autos. A pure Single Action is along the lines of a Ruger Blackhawk, where the hammer needs to be manually cocked prior to firing. Most exposed hammer revolvers are DA/SA in that they can be fired in double action mode (where a long pull of the trigger cocks the hammer, then releases it) or single action mode (manually cocking the hammer). Shrouded hammer wheelguns are somewhat of a classic DAO, since the hammer cannot be manually cocked back and rely on a full stroke of the trigger to cock and release the hammer.

Hammer-fired semi-autos become a little more complex when it comes to SA and DA (although DAO's really aren't that much different than a shrouded hammer wheelgun), in SA or DA typically refers to the manner that the first shot is fired. Cycling the slide (such as to chamber a round) on most hammer fired semi-autos cocks the hammer, placing the gun in a single action condition. Those capable of DA first shot capability typically have a decocking mechanism to place the gun in DA mode. For subsequent shots, the hammer is cocked by the cycling of the slide. Since the hammer is already cocked, single action tends to refer to only releasing the cocked hammer for firing. DAO's, in theory, only allow the hammer to be cocked through pull of the trigger, regardless of cycling of the slide.

If one assumes that a striker performs the same function as a hammer, SA and DA logic would tend to follow. Where much of the debate still lies (particularly for those familiar with IDPA rules) is how the most popular striker-fired handguns are classified. Without getting into the squeeze-cocked HK's, the lack of any kind of device to "decock" the striker on a striker-fired gun would theoretically result in a classification as either SA or DAO. Complicating the debate is how "partially cocked" versus "fully cocked" figures into things. That said, I find it difficult to try to lump the action of an XD (or a Glock) into the category of being a SA or DAO, with the complexity of a USA or "safe action" driving it into a separate category on it's own.

mcb's comment regarding repeated trigger pulls raises an interesting point - are multiple strikes possible with a Glock?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,244 Posts
I believe you cannot repeatedly strike a faulty cartridge with a Glock. If the cartridge fails to fire on the first strike you must rack the slide to try again. The striker is partial cocked when cycled so if you were restricted to only SA and DA classifications then the Glock would be closer to Single Action than Double Action. It seems IMHO that if you are going to classify the action of a semi-auto handgun as double action then multiply strikes should be possible, if not possible than is it really double action?

mcb
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,420 Posts
Delija,

Whoops... I may be confusing one of the Glock debates I heard a long time ago. In any case, perhaps "KNOW" should not have been capitalized, and should have been spelled "think". Hehe.

Glad my logic is better than my memory...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,801 Posts
[TASF said:
Overkill]Delija,

Glad my logic is better than my memory...
Don't worry about it. Just the normal process of aging. Short term memory (where are my keys?), eyesight, hearing, etc. They all deteriorate. Perfect eyesight when you are 20 or 30? You'll still need reading glasses before you are 50.

But the logic should hold up for a good 100 years. Maybe more. Unless you never had it in the first place. In your case, that's not a concern.

Nyeinjanyei,
D.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,098 Posts
Wouldn't the XD be a DA/SA?

Double Action Only (DAO) is a type of semi-automatic pistol trigger system whereby the hammer remains down when not firing and must be raised and cocked by the pull of the trigger in order to fire. This results in a long and heavy trigger pull which is regarded as safer and less prone to accidental discharge. In contrast, in a Double Action / Single Action (DA/SA) pistol the hammer is cocked by the rearward action of the slide meaning that all shots after the first have a short and light trigger pull, which is more conducive to accuracy. The hammer can also be cocked manually before the first shot, as it must be in a true single action semi-automatic pistol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
688 Posts
Something from Guns & Ammo Magazine.


fromGuns & Ammo December 2004

Defining The XD

The XD is correctly classified as a single-action design, meaning it is fully cocked by racking the slide. Most single-action autos have manual safeties, but the XD's Croatian designers eliminated the need for such safeties by adopting the Glock-type trigger safety as well as an internal firing-pin block. They also added a grip safety. The XD is a very safe design, but its single-action designation has confused some.The XD is a true single-action internally but externally operates more like a double-action-only handgun. There are no manual safeties to disengage beforehand, and the trigger takeup has the feel of a light (very light) double-action pull before reaching a final single-action release. OK, I'll say it. The XD operates like a Glock with a grip safety. As with the Glock, the trigger design does not fit any traditional classification, so Springfield coined its own terminology and dubbed it the USA (Ultra Safety Assurance) trigger safety. The XD shares many design features with other popular handguns, along with some new features that are sure to influence future handgun design.

Inside The XD

The XD is a single-action design in that the trigger does not cock the striker. But the XD trigger does perform more than a single function, as do many other modern single-action designs. When the trigger is pressed, the trigger bar moves forward, and a lever in the frame pivots upward, disengaging the striker block. It's important to note that this disengagement occurs during the final stage of the trigger release. The striker-safety lever moves up in unison with the sear release. This means the long takeup of the trigger serves no mechanical function. The long pull does enhance safety, however, and performs much the same as a two-stage military-rifle trigger.The safety lever on the trigger and the grip safety are simple and effective blocking devices. At rest, the nose of the trigger lever butts against a steel block in the frame, preventing the trigger from being depressed without first pressing the trigger safety. Likewise, the grip safety blocks the sear from moving downward and releasing the striker until the safety is depressed. The grip safety also prevents the slide from being racked. The trigger safety is an ingenious idea pioneered by Glock. It's just one of several unobtrusive safety features found on the XD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
IDPA and atf classifies it as a SAO pistol.

I think of it as like a 1911, everyone walks around with the hammer back on safe, and this is the way I carry my XD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,801 Posts
jdavionic said:
Wouldn't the XD be a DA/SA?

.
No. A DA/SA pistol can be (or must be) cocked for the first shot by a full long hard pull of the trigger. Subsequent shots are single action since the rearward motion of the slide after the first shot cocks the hammer.

I had a Smith and Wesson 469 that was SA/DA. It was a very hard gun to shoot accurately on that first shot. That particular gun could not be manually cocked like some DA/SA pistols.

The XD is a single action only pistol. Seems that plenty of corroborating information is here .... enough to put it to rest :wink:

Pace,
D.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
510 Posts
Didn't the ATF deem the xd a SA because it's fully cocked after the slide has been racked vs the Glock that is only half cocked (no puns on Glock people here) after racking the slide :?: Maybe I misread that :?
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top