[WoodBurner]

This is a very long post. I have several things I want to explain and in my line of work the more info I got about a problem the better the chance of figuring out “what went wrong” so that is my mode of thinking.


I had several failure to fires (FTF) yesterday at the range. When this happened there was no strike on the primer and the trigger was “locked” ie it wouldn't move. Needless to say I am very concerned! While I shot 345 rounds from 4 different manufacturers I haven't had issues with any ammo in the past. At this point my real concern is how can I know the gun will fire if it is needed! The worst part of this is it was my SD ammo, the Gold Dots, that had the most FTF but then I shot more GD ammo than the others. Please read my entire post as there may be some important (or not?) info in it.


This is an XD9sc that I bought new last February, it came with a 13 and 16 round mag and I bought another 16 round from SA. I use one 16 round mag for the house only and the other at the range. It has 2,600 rounds thru it, about 95% using the range mag, initially I did use the house mag. Now I always clean the gun each time I shoot it because when I got it I didn't clean it and after about 600 rounds I got 2 or 3 FTF one day using what is now the house mag. Since then I have cleaned it every time I shoot it and I never had another FTF until yesterday. This gun was last fired in October 6 months ago but I doubt that matters.


I shot 145 rounds of Gold Dot 147 gr JHP. In the past I only shot a few and I wanted to really see how the gun performed using them. I had more FTF with the Gold Dots than the other 3 brands. I had maybe 4 or 5 FTF with the GD but then I shot more of these. I had 7 or 8 total FTF using all the ammo.


Shot Herters FMJ 115 gr 100 rounds


Shot American Eagle FMJ 115 gr 50 rounds


Shot Winchester white box FMJ 115 gr 50 rounds


When I had a FTF I noticed that it was most likely to happen when I put the 16 round mag loaded with 16 rounds into the gun, racked the slide and pulled the trigger. Nothing. No mark on the primer, the trigger didn't move (it was locked for a lack of a better term), each time the striker indicator was protruding and the chamber loaded indicator was up so things appeared to be OK. Once or twice I had a FTF part way thru the 16 round mag. I used my 13 round mag to see if this happened with it and it may have happened 1 time but with the 16 round mag it happened 6-7, maybe 8 total times. If I racked the slide and ejected the unfired round it always fired. Here's something odd – one or two times I pressed really hard on the trigger (really hard) and it went boom. Luckily the muzzle was pointed down range but the gun was elevated. I did not expect it to fire and that really freaked me out! Can anyone explain what or why this locked trigger sensation occurred? I have never thought this gun had a smooth trigger but I have nothing to compare it to. To me it seems stiff requiring more force than what I'd think is normal for a smooth firing and I think it effects my accuracy but I know there may be other issues with that.


Yesterday the 16 round mag I used was the house mag not the range mag. I only used it at the range initially before I got the 2nd 16 round mag. So I wanted to test the Gold Dots using the mag I would use in the house so that's the one I took to the range. The range mag didn't have these FTF problems other than that 1st 600 round/cleaning thing above. I mention this as I suspected the mag (I did not have the range mag with me to test yesterday) but I can't see how that would be the problem (the locking of the trigger) but could it? When I came home I disassembled the 13 and 16 round mags I used and both were clean, I thought maybe there'd be crap in the 16.


I know not to get oil near the striker. I reread the owner's manual yesterday for how to clean the gun but IMO it is pretty vague. Because of this I have used this video for instructions on how to clean and lube the gun -

. If you watch from 7:05 thru 7:36 I question the drop of oil in the trigger area, the area in the back and the mag release button. Should I put 1 drop of oil during each cleaning into these 3 areas? I have done this each time in each area but just a drop not multiple drops.


One last thing I bolted the paddle holster to the bed frame. The gun sits pointed down and is covered by a sheet and comforter, this is where the gun is all the time unless I leave the house. Is it possible dust and tiny pieces of skin get into the gun when I make the bed? That's probably a long shot, I have looked but see nothing when I field strip it, but I am grasping at straws. If this concealment method is a problem getting crap into the gun then I need to find a different method.


I can't dismantle the gun, I'm OK field stripping it for cleaning but taking it apart will not go well or end well! I have zero confidence, experience or ability to dismantle it so please don't suggest I do that. So with that in mind is there anything I can do? Should I contact SA and send it back to them, I assume they would fix it for free or is a local gun smith able to fix this?


Yes a long post. I've lost the confidence I had in this gun and need to get this checked and fixed. I have felt safe with the XD9sc as my SD gun but now I am questioning if... IF I needed to use it would it fire? Yesterday has really shaken my confidence! If not I may as well be carrying it or keeping it in the house in condition 3 vs C1 as there may be no time to rack the slide and get a new round in the chamber if I get a FTF in a SD situation!


I appreciate any help you can offer.

 

[Coca_Cola_Addict]

Send it in to SA asap. Even if I (or anyone) could figure out the problem from my desk chair, you have already admitted you don't have the skill to fix it. A local gunsmith can probably fix it for you faster but you will pay. Ship to SA an they will fix it for free, plus their customer service is top notch.

 

[5L1mm]

too long to read. did you try cleaning it?

[dodges thrown objects, and runs for the door]

 

[Noah]

I had several failure to fires (FTF) yesterday at the range. When this happened there was no strike on the primer and the trigger was “locked” ie it wouldn't move. Needless to say I am very concerned! While I shot 345 rounds from 4 different manufacturers I haven't had issues with any ammo in the past. At this point my real concern is how can I know the gun will fire if it is needed! The worst part of this is it was my SD ammo, the Gold Dots, that had the most FTF but then I shot more GD ammo than the others. Please read my entire post as there may be some important (or not?) info in it.

If the trigger didn't move and there was no primer strike, which there shouldn't be if the trigger is not pulled, then I doubt it's an ammo issue.

My first guess is that it's a safety issue. Either the trigger safety or the grip safety will prevent the trigger from being pulled. Did it happen towards the end of the session? Maybe your hands were getting a little tired?

Now I always clean the gun each time I shoot it because when I got it I didn't clean it and after about 600 rounds I got 2 or 3 FTF one day using what is now the house mag. Since then I have cleaned it every time I shoot it and I never had another FTF until yesterday.

Were the first set of FTF's the same or did it "click" and have a primer strike? If it clicked, I'd say its an unrelated issue maybe due to dirt.

When I had a FTF I noticed that it was most likely to happen when I put the 16 round mag loaded with 16 rounds into the gun, racked the slide and pulled the trigger. Nothing. No mark on the primer, the trigger didn't move (it was locked for a lack of a better term), each time the striker indicator was protruding and the chamber loaded indicator was up so things appeared to be OK.

As above, I doubt this is a mag issue, unless the extended 16 round mag somehow loosened the grip so you weren't pressing in on the grip safety.

I'm also assuming the striker indicator stayed protruding and there was no "click". Again there shouldn't be if the trigger doesn't move.

I'm still going with the safetys.

Here's something odd – one or two times I pressed really hard on the trigger (really hard) and it went boom. Luckily the muzzle was pointed down range but the gun was elevated. I did not expect it to fire and that really freaked me out!

Rule #3 - Don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire. But I've also heard it as, "Always be prepared for the gun to go boom when your booger picker is on the bang switch."

I also wonder if the extra force from the front finger tightened up the grip somehow.

Can anyone explain what or why this locked trigger sensation occurred? I have never thought this gun had a smooth trigger but I have nothing to compare it to. To me it seems stiff requiring more force than what I'd think is normal for a smooth firing and I think it effects my accuracy but I know there may be other issues with that.

I'd suggest seeing if a range near you has a rental, preferably in your model, but any XD should work. If not ask if you can dry fire one out of the case, then you can see if your trigger is way different.

I would also suggest some dry firing drills/safety checks. Unload the pistol. Check that it's unloaded. Check that it's unloaded. Then with varying amounts of pressure on the two safeties see what it takes to release the striker.

If it fails to fire with both safeties fully depressed, I'd either send it back to Springfield (free) or take it to a local smith (quicker maybe).

I can't dismantle the gun, I'm OK field stripping it for cleaning but taking it apart will not go well or end well! I have zero confidence, experience or ability to dismantle it so please don't suggest I do that. So with that in mind is there anything I can do? Should I contact SA and send it back to them, I assume they would fix it for free or is a local gun smith able to fix this?

If it's just the trigger safety and you don't like the way that the stock trigger feels, you could replace it with a PRP drop in kit. Either you or a gunsmith could do this. I know you said not to suggest it, but it's easier than you might think. Check out their YouTube instructions.

 

[Noah]

Just remembered.

If it's were a grip safety problem it probably would not have cycled. So I'm going with a problem with the USA trigger safety. That's the little lever in the center of the trigger if you didn't know.

 

[WoodBurner]

If the trigger didn't move and there was no primer strike, which there shouldn't be if the trigger is not pulled, then I doubt it's an ammo issue. I tend to discount the ammo too.

My first guess is that it's a safety issue. Either the trigger safety or the grip safety will prevent the trigger from being pulled. Did it happen towards the end of the session? No it may have been on the 1st mag but certainly on the 2nd mag shot. So it started very soon if not immediately. No my hands were not tired. Maybe your hands were getting a little tired?




Were the first set of FTF's the same or did it "click" and have a primer strike? If it clicked, I'd say its an unrelated issue maybe due to dirt. No click no sound at all just no boom, trigger refused to move, until I really pressed hard as I mentioned but that was by the time this happened 4 or 5 times and I was totally po'ed by then.



As above, I doubt this is a mag issue, unless the extended 16 round mag somehow loosened the grip so you weren't pressing in on the grip safety.

I'm also assuming the striker indicator stayed protruding yes and there was no "click" correct no click on any FTF . Again there shouldn't be if the trigger doesn't move.

I'm still going with the safetys.




Rule #3 - Don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire. But I've also heard it as, "Always be prepared for the gun to go boom when your booger picker is on the bang switch."

I also wonder if the extra force from the front finger tightened up the grip somehow. I was holding the gun correctly and firmly all the time, there is no possible way I was not depressing the grip safety.



I'd suggest seeing if a range near you has a rental, preferably in your model, but any XD should work. If not ask if you can dry fire one out of the case, then you can see if your trigger is way different.

I would also suggest some dry firing drills/safety checks. Unload the pistol. Check that it's unloaded. Check that it's unloaded. Then with varying amounts of pressure on the two safeties see what it takes to release the striker. I'll do that. I've practiced with snap caps so I'll use them. The problem is it is very hit or miss. I could fire it 100 times w/o a problem. Remember yesterday I shot 345 rounds and this happened a maximum of 8 times, pretty low percentage..

If it fails to fire with both safeties fully depressed, I'd either send it back to Springfield (free) or take it to a local smith (quicker maybe).



If it's just the trigger safety and you don't like the way that the stock trigger feels, you could replace it with a PRP drop in kit. Either you or a gunsmith could do this. I know you said not to suggest it, but it's easier than you might think. Check out their YouTube instructions.

Replies in red.

 

[Deer Slayer]

Pop the slide off, and see if the striker block moves freely. If it's sticking, that would keep the trigger from full travel. It really does sound like one of the safeties isn't getting pressed though.

 

[WoodBurner]

Pop the slide off, and see if the striker block moves freely. If it's sticking, that would keep the trigger from full travel. It really does sound like one of the safeties isn't getting pressed though.

see if the striker block moves freely

I don't understand, I thought the striker was inside a "block", what do I see move freely and what do I do to see that? See why I don't want to dismantle it!

 

[WoodBurner]

Just to add further clarification to the "locked" trigger yesterday - the trigger was rock hard, immoveable, IIRC even the safety trigger would not depress. Nothing, it was as if the entire trigger was welded and immoveable.

Now I just dropped the mag, unloaded the chamber, checked it was unloaded, checked again and then racked the slide 5 or 6 times! I don't like squeezing the trigger inside the house. So it is safely unloaded. I never checked this before but I was able to fire the striker with the grip safety depressed about 90% of the way. I would have thought it had to be depressed 100% ie flush into the grip? It's a very small way out of the grip but that makes me curious, is that a malfunction?

 

[Coca_Cola_Addict]

Just to add further clarification to the "locked" trigger yesterday - the trigger was rock hard, immoveable, IIRC even the safety trigger would not depress. Nothing, it was as if the entire trigger was welded and immoveable.

Well there is your problem. Like Noah thought its most likely the trigger safety malfunctioning for some reason or other. If I were you I wouldn't waste any more time and get the gun to SA.

 

[WoodBurner]

So here is another update. I removed the slide, pulled out the recoil guide spring assembly and the barrel. The striker block (I'm assuming that was what you are referring to, the part the striker is in) doesn't move if I try to move it with a finger.

I took out the 16 round mag and replaced 1 round with a snap cap. I racked the slide so this is the scenario yesterday and the trigger fires every time. I pulled the slide back 1/2" to recock it firing the pistol 50-60 times. Several times I put the snap cap back into the mag but I can't get the trigger to lock.

At this point I think the possibility that I may not have been fully holding the pistol high enough in my hand to fully grasp and depress the grip safety may be possible. I found myself doing that 1 time just now, off by tiny amount but could I have done that yesterday? Frankly I doubt it but like a guy that doesn't want to accept his wife is cheating on him and rationalizes the plausibility that he is seeing things that really aren't there maybe I am doing the same. Until I can go to the range again and fire it I really can't be sure of anything.

The fact the trigger fires with the grip safety 90% depressed, is that absolutely a sign there's a problem or do other sc do the same? I think it is a problem but I am far from knowing for sure.

 

[WoodBurner]

Well there is your problem. Like Noah thought its most likely the trigger safety malfunctioning for some reason or other. If I were you I wouldn't waste any more time and get the gun to SA.

OK I'll call SA tomorrow and find out how to ship it. This sucks cuz it is the only gun I have and now I'm going to feel like I'm walking around necked and that isn't a pretty sight or thought! ;-)

 

[Coca_Cola_Addict]

The two safeties are independent, the trigger safety should move freely no matter what the grip safety is doing. The only problem with sending it to SA is you may never know what caused the problem, and that would bug me, especially with my carry/only defense weapon...

 

[WoodBurner]

Be that as it may if it is fixed and I can trust it then I'm a happy camper. I just hate the thought of not having it here, going out I'm not as concerned about but it's that 3 am thing that scares the crap out of me. Nothing ever effected me like this and still to this day almost 7 years later it still haunts me. I don't live in Cheshire. We all live in Cheshire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders

 

[Deer Slayer]

I'm not saying this to be mean, or hurtful in any way, but you need to work on the basic understanding of the inner workings of your gun. By striker block, I mean the internal safety that blocks the striker. It looks like a button on the bottom of the slide.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Like Deer Slayer, my thinking also tended towards a stuck striker block. Some kind of junk could have entered the pistol at some point and got over or into the cavity of the little button preventing it from being depressed by the trigger. You do not have much "leverage" when something is in the way of the trigger mechanism and it would seem like a ton of pull was needed to overcome something as small as a thin piece of leaf material or some such.

Then there is the roll pin that is not unknown to break in some XD types. If you look at the top of your slide just forward of the rear sights, there is a roll pin that goes down through the striker channel and holds the striker from going too far in either direction. Too much dry firing without a snap cap can put strain on this pin and break it. I had one gun that broke that pin and now I have spares in case it should happen again. Pistol Gear even sells a "heavy duty" pin to replace the stock one. I have not heard of this happening much on the newer XDm types though they have the same pin. Perhaps Springfield has updated the spec for that pin to make it heavier or something, but in the original XD types this kind of failure was not unknown and if not common at least something to look for.

Still... if you are completely unfamiliar with your gun and not willing to learn by watching some UTube vids, you have little choice but to return the gun to Springfield and let them do the work. Frankly, I think a detail strip of the upper and cleaning out the striker channel while you're at it would help with your confidence in your ability to work on your own gun. Such a disassembly would involve removing the pin I talked about and you would see if it were broken or not. Heck... it could even be a broken or improperly installed spring under that striker block that is tying things up. They are not very hard to remove, but send it SA and ask for an explanation of what the problem is when you do.

 

[Noah]

Here's a thread about the safeties

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/genera...nding-how-safeties-work-springfield-xd-s.html

Look at the pictures in post 3, striker block should be the middle picture. True if it gets jammed the trigger probably won't pull, but that wouldn't block the trigger safety.

Here's a video where they replace it and there's a diagram in the manual.

striker safety

and here's one that shows how it works

XD/XDM Faftory trigger system

The striker safety is the lighter one and the sear is the black one.

If it moves but is somehow gritty or not smooth that could be a sign of an intermittent problem.

Best bet is to send it in and hope they can replicate the problem. But I sure would love to know what the problem is.

I have an old Marlin 780 bolt action .22 rifle that was having intermittent light strikes. I took it to a gunsmith and he said he cleaned it and took it apart and couldn't find the problem. I decided to take the bolt apart myself and found a small splinter of metal that had somehow worked itself into the area around the firing pin. Haven't had a problem since.

So it could be something as crappy as debris getting into the trigger mechanism and blocking it. Of course I don't think there's an easy way to check without removing the locking block (piece of metal inside the frame where the disassembly lever attaches).

Also, I am not a gunsmith, just a mechanically inclined tinker who likes to know how things work and solve problems.

 

[WoodBurner]

I bought snap caps so I wouldn't have to dry fire the pistol. I have done it maybe 5-10 times before the snap caps came and of course when the slide is removed. Bottom line, I don't dry fire it.

I'd LOVE to disassemble, learn the internals, know how to fully clean and reassemble my pistol but I'm not going to watch a YT video to do it! If someone that knew what they were doing would show me I'd be thrilled to learn but I don't know anyone so I'm in the dark. I'm semi mechanical but I've had enough oops! moments that I am not willing to mess with stuff. I change oil, plug, air and gas filters on my small equipment, oil and filter on cars, tune up my truck (1973 so it's pretty simple no electronics) but I stopped working on cars about 10 years ago.

 

[Deer Slayer]

Another thought I had is if the trigger safety won't move, maybe there's a foreign object stuck in the frame behind trigger that moves around.

 

[WoodBurner]

Possible but I am pretty careful how the gun and mags are treated. They're never dropped on the ground basically the gun's in the holster bolted to the bed rail or the holster on my belt and the mags are in the gun or a dresser drawer. Not saying it's not possible but I don't go camping for example or put them into a backpack with other things.

Bottom line I'm going to check locally and with SA and see what's involved. I prefer SA but that probably means 3-6 weeks w/o the pistol. I don't want to buy another pistol for that time frame just to sell it. I know most folks here have several if not dozens of guns but I don't have a gun safe and really don't want to get one so 1 gun is good for me, I need to secure all guns so that's why I feel this way. If I was in a free state I'd like to get a couple of pistols and rifles and then a gun safe weighing 750 pounds would make sense. I know most everyone here won't get that but it works for me.

Thanks for the help everyone.