[masterchither]

Reviewing "ATF’s Firearm, Silencer, and Pistol Brace Final Regulations" from The Truth about Guns website. Timetable of when the ATF will implement Pistol Brace rules is Auguest 2022. From this I don't understand the categories, and how to add up the points. Could you help me understand this form.

Sig Tread M400 Coil Pistol 11.5 + muzzle, Sig Romeo 5 red dot sight. (I am removing the flip up sights I had on), Magpul M-LOK AFG - Angled Fore Grip

Thank you!

 

[sdprof]

You have to realize the form is designed so that if you have anything more than a sharp stick, you're screwed.

 

[YosemiteCedar]

Try this: Pistol Point Calculator | GOA (gunowners.org)

 

[Bozz10mm]

The way it's set up, if you have a pistol with a brace, it fails the test.

 

[YosemiteCedar]

The way it's set up, if you have a pistol with a brace, it fails the test.

I noticed that as well.

 

[masterchither]

You have to realize the form is designed so that if you have anything more than a sharp stick, you're screwed.

That is so unfortunately true!

 

[masterchither]

Try this: Pistol Point Calculator | GOA (gunowners.org)

Thank you, tried it.. and no matter what combination you select on that page, it leads you to FAIL! Lol

 

[YosemiteCedar]

Thank you, tried it.. and no matter what combination you select on that page, it leads you to FAIL! Lol

I can't believe that a configuration can get 2 points for having either "rifle sights" or no sights. What counts as "rifle sights?"

Even if there are configurations that would pass the worksheets, I feel like many people will be too discouraged to even try. And I think that the folks who have an AR pistol because they have a disability which makes using a regular AR15 rifle too difficult are going to have a real disservice done to them.

 

[.45fan]

I can't believe that a configuration can get 2 points for having either "rifle sights" or no sights. What counts as "rifle sights?"

Even if there are configurations that would pass the worksheets, I feel like many people will be too discouraged to even try. And I think that the folks who have an AR pistol because they have a disability which makes using a regular AR15 rifle too difficult are going to have a real disservice done to them.

All it is would be the loophole has been closed.

People have used a loop hole calling it a pistol then posting videos all over the world of them using it as an SBR and are now crying because the bear got sick of being poked.

As to handicap people, they can pay the tax stamp as they should have all along and be not only legal but still able to use their SBR pistol as they wish.

I'm not pro tax, I'm just calling it what it is. The law says that requires a tax and the ATF opinion that has changed multiple times, now says it needs a tax stamp. Just being real.

 

[mtnlvr]

But it will reduce crime!

 

[YosemiteCedar]

All it is would be the loophole has been closed.

People have used a loop hole calling it a pistol then posting videos all over the world of them using it as an SBR and are now crying because the bear got sick of being poked.

As to handicap people, they can pay the tax stamp as they should have all along and be not only legal but still able to use their SBR pistol as they wish.

I'm not pro tax, I'm just calling it what it is. The law says that requires a tax and the ATF opinion that has changed multiple times, now says it needs a tax stamp. Just being real.

To be clear, I don't have an AR pistol and don't really have all that much interest in owning one-- that's my preference. It is my understanding that the intent of pistol braces is to help someone shoot an AR-15 type pistol with one hand and that proper use is for someone to strap the brace to his or her forearm (The Truth About AR-15 Pistols and Stabilizing Braces - The Truth About Guns).

I understand that the ATF is proposing the rule because some folks are misusing pistol braces (I think that misusing a product is a bad idea in general), but the GOA is stating that "[t]he rule would make almost all guns equipped with popular pistol braces illegal, requiring gun owners to destroy, register, or surrender their lawfully-acquired firearms accessories" (Stop the ATF’s Pistol-Braced Gun Ban | GOA (gunowners.org)). I'm not a lawyer and maybe the GOA is FOS or the final rule will not have the same impacts as the proposed rule or that the pistols configured by folks with disabilities would not be affected... I guess we'll see, but if this ruling does prevent people with disabilities from being able to use AR pistols as they were meant to be used (with one hand), I still think that it is wrong for the government to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms of someone because they are disabled.

 

[.45fan]

To be clear, I don't have an AR pistol and don't really have all that much interest in owning one-- that's my preference. It is my understanding that the intent of pistol braces is to help someone shoot an AR-15 type pistol with one hand and that proper use is for someone to strap the brace to his or her forearm (The Truth About AR-15 Pistols and Stabilizing Braces - The Truth About Guns).

I understand that the ATF is proposing the rule because some folks are misusing pistol braces (I think that misusing a product is a bad idea in general), but the GOA is stating that "[t]he rule would make almost all guns equipped with popular pistol braces illegal, requiring gun owners to destroy, register, or surrender their lawfully-acquired firearms accessories" (Stop the ATF’s Pistol-Braced Gun Ban | GOA (gunowners.org)). I'm not a lawyer and maybe the GOA is FOS or the final rule will not have the same impacts as the proposed rule or that the pistols configured by folks with disabilities would not be affected... I guess we'll see, but if this ruling does prevent people with disabilities from being able to use AR pistols as they were meant to be used (with one hand), I still think that it is wrong for the government to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms of someone because they are disabled.

I'm in the same category as you on pistol ownership, I gave sbr's.
As to some people abusing the brace, in my experience is a super high percentage more like most.
I sent in comments for them to not ban them as I'm not wanting to see anything else getting banned, but as my last post said I'm just being real.

I'm not against your disabilities argument, because there are some folks that have disabilities and the brace helps them, but idiots abuse things and screw others in the process.

Similar to idiots on airplanes with animals the lie about being service animals, that screws people with real service animals.

If GOAor one if the groups can sue and overturn it, great, but it all books down to idiots on social media being the cause of this happening.
If it were only people using braces as one arm shooting devices, read not putting it up to their shoulder, this would not be a news issue.

As I said, if the atf wins, handicap people can still use the brace they just have to pay the stamp to have an SBR as opposed to pistol.

Again I hate the NFA laws, but laws are laws and until someone gets them repealed, they should be followed as best we can.

 

[masterchither]

How about a "What if", what if a person just takes the SBA3 or whatever brace off? Then it's just a AR pistol, buffer tube, and whatever sight. Right? Then it shows how the ATF going through all this is pointless. The AR pistol is still legal.

The other thing is, criminals, and the insane don't stop to purchase a stamp before they do what they do. Or did what the did.

 

[ArmyGuy45]

How about a "What if", what if a person just takes the SBA3 or whatever brace off? Then it's just a AR pistol, buffer tube, and whatever sight. Right? Then it shows how the ATF going through all this is pointless. The AR pistol is still legal.

while this is “legal” they could say you have a pistol brace “readily available” and therefore a SBR. My uncle talked to a lawyer about having a pistol upper in the safe next to a complete rifle lower (two pins and you have a complete weapon) and the lawyer advice against it. He used the term “readily available”.

 

[ArmyGuy45]

I think every AR pistol is now an SBR due getting 4 points for 2nd grip in section 3.

 

[Bozz10mm]

How many people still shoot a handgun with just one hand. 95% (my guess) use both hands. And how does a $200 tax make a short barrel rifle safer or less deadly? Once they started taxing a right, it turns into a privilege.

 

[ArmyGuy45]

How many people still shoot a handgun with just one hand. 95% (my guess) use both hands. And how does a $200 tax make a short barrel rifle safer or less deadly? Once they started taxing a right, it turns into a privilege.

While I agree that it’s stupid logic, your handgun only has one grip that both hands use. The AR pistol has two.

 

[bubbatime]

My uncle talked to a lawyer about having a pistol upper in the safe next to a complete rifle lower (two pins and you have a complete weapon) and the lawyer advice against it. He used the term “readily available”.

I've heard the argument and I don't like it.

Just because you have a pistol upper, doesn't mean you have ever put it on a rifle lower. Or ever intend to. Some people intend to buy a pistol lower later on, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I have an appendage between my legs. Should I be charged with sexual assault? I have the equipment and the ability....

 

[ArmyGuy45]

I've heard the argument and I don't like it.

Just because you have a pistol upper, doesn't mean you have ever put it on a rifle lower. Or ever intend to. Some people intend to buy a pistol lower later on, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I have an appendage between my legs. Should I be charged with sexual assault? I have the equipment and the ability....

Agreed on all points. But now you are having to pay money to “prove” innocents due to an accusation. I don’t like it at all.

 

[.45fan]

How many people still shoot a handgun with just one hand. 95% (my guess) use both hands. And how does a $200 tax make a short barrel rifle safer or less deadly? Once they started taxing a right, it turns into a privilege.

The NFA that caused the tax had been in place since your grandparents were born or before.
The brace was a loophole for cheapskates to avoid the small tax.

You can either spend millions trying to get the NFA removed, or pay the small tax and be done. It is really that easy.

No different than running a red light, you get away with it for a while, but eventually you get caught. So many dummies abused the loophole it is now being closed.

My point, that law was in place for a long time before AR-15's were even thought of.

Bitching about the lunch money cost of the stamp will cause them to raise it like it was in the first place, unaffordable to most people.