[sewerman]

guess i'm giving into the dark side.

can anyone let me know if this rig is worth looking into?

link:XCR Home Page

thanks,
sewerman

 

[Wild Rice]

At a Virginia gunshop, I handled a previously owned XCR on consignment (before the recent panic) for $1,499 with an included AimPoint optic. It looked like a collector's gun without a scratch on it. It is an impressive piece with a monolithic one piece upper receiver/quad rail, charging handle where it should be (on the left side), excellent balance (16" light-barrel .223 model), folding stock (no spring "boing" under your right ear), adjustable gas piston operated, more similar to an FN FAL than an AR-15, modular in the sense of being able to change calibers. I think the magazine and pistol grip are AR compatible, but not much else. I probably should have bought it. One thing that held me back were rumors about counterfeit AimPoints and I did not know how to verify. RobArms may have had a few teething problems as the Problem section of the XCRForum is a bit worrisome. I am sure the problems/complaints are from a very small percentage of their customers. If you direct ordered from RobArms you could get the latest XCR version configured just the way you want it. I have no idea what the wait times are.

I heard RobArms missed out on their chance at competing in a big government trial because the blank firing adaptors arrived late. They couldn't sell the XCR to the government, they are happy to sell one to you.

 

[sewerman]

in my search tonight i also found another gas/piston operated AR style produced by D S Arms this is the link:AR GTC Gas Trap Carbine with C.R.O.S., 5.56 NATO-D S Arms

do you have any info on this beast?

thanks,
sewerman

 

[Wild Rice]

The best affordable gas piston AR I have handled would be a factory assembled CMMG gas piston 16" barrel complete carbine for $1188, seen about one month ago at a gunshow. I did not know enough about it at the time to purchase it. Even the dealer did not know what he had as it was tagged as "CMMG Gas Pistol". It was solid with a good finish, tight receiver fit, strong as heck gas block, slick action, and fat hand guards to accomodate the gas piston. It had gone unsold, either because it looked like a regular M4 without any sights, or people were unfamiliar with it. I should have made a low ball offer. Looking back it was worth ever penny of its asking price.

 

[ranburr]

The XCR is a well made rifle. And Farnum really does use them. It is superior to a piston AR due to the differences in the sizes of the pistons.

ranburr

 

[sewerman]

my thanks to everyone who has offered advice and information.

between the threads i searched and found this company D S Arms.
D S also makes a piton operated AR style rifle. Link:AR GTC Gas Trap Carbine with C.R.O.S., 5.56 NATO-D S Arms

i like the robinson but would like to learn more about the others mentioned as well as this D A Arms rifle if anyone can help i'm all ears.

thanks,
sewerman

 

[billbrasky]

my thanks to everyone who has offered advice and information.

between the threads i searched and found this company D S Arms.
D S also makes a piton operated AR style rifle. Link:AR GTC Gas Trap Carbine with C.R.O.S., 5.56 NATO-D S Arms

i like the robinson but would like to learn more about the others mentioned as well as this D A Arms rifle if anyone can help i'm all ears.

thanks,
sewerman

DSA makes the best FAL's ... well out of the box, readily available FAL's that is.

i dont know much about their piston unit AR.

But if your willing to spend the $1800 they are asking, be sure to look over a LWRC,

East Coast Firearms - Gallery page

i am strongly considering a 5.56 SOC for $1785.

it has everything i want, nothing i dont want, not cheap but i have been trying to decide for a year on the bushie/magpul masada, the FN scar IS OUT of the running cause they want $3,000, and some of the lesser AR-15s i am not sure i would be 100 % satisfied. I think i would still wish i had bought the LWRC. I have pondered if i am a jerk for wanting a $1800 AR, its been months, and i still want it.

on the plus side the prices dont seem to have gone up on the LWRC in a number of months, even post election i think eastcoast has them at the same price as they did 4-5 months ago.

be sure to look into it.

ohh about the XCR, i looked into that allot about a year ago. It somewhat scared me that they are low volume, i was afraid they would go out of business, or orphan the product line, and leave me with no easy cheap way to get parts. The LWRC is 90% parts commonality with standard ar15.

i like all the mods i have the option to bolt on to my ar15 .... not nearly as many in comparison you have virtually nothing in terms of aftermarket options for the Robinson arms XCR.

I kinda wish they would license it to one of the big boys i would love if glock pumped out tens of thousands of them, or ruger, or sig, or springfield, or remmington.

 

[coyotenator]

I bought an XCR-L carbine recently and like it a lot.The quality of the machining,fit and finish is excellent (better than my Bushmaster).I thought about the parts compatability but since it was configured pretty much the way I wanted it I decided it was a non-issue(I am going to change the grip)I have only put a few more than the recommended number of "break-in" rounds thru it yet (300)and have been impressed by it's accuracy.It will shoot 1 1/2 MOA with Century M-193 and well under 1 MOA with Federal Premium.I've already taken several 'yotes, a couple out almost 300yds.The felt recoil seems a little lighter than other ARs I have fired,probably due to the extra mass of the piston system.I do think the piston system is cleaner and more reliable than the DI system, but hope to never be in a SHTF position where it matters.All in all I think Robinson has a great product and I think they will be around for a long time.

 

[KEVWYO]

I am patiently waiting for the Bushmaster ACR which supposedly is due out sometime in the first half of '09. I'll believe it when I see it but that is what I am waiting for.

 

[sewerman]

this morning i uncovered a company that manufactures upper receivers that are gas piston operated. link: Addax Tactical Gas-Piston System for AR-Series Rifles

maybe this is the way to go since i could utilize a common produced lower.
link: pro's and con's on this set up would be most appreciated.
i keep uncovering new companies as i search. hopefully i'm thinning the herd!
thanks, sewerman

 

[nateroach]

this morning i uncovered a company that manufactures upper receivers that are gas piston operated. link: Addax Tactical Gas-Piston System for AR-Series Rifles

maybe this is the way to go since i could utilize a common produced lower.
link: pro's and con's on this set up would be most appreciated.
i keep uncovering new companies as i search. hopefully i'm thinning the herd!
thanks, sewerman

I don't know a lot of the pros and cons as I have never owned and or used a piston upper but just some general observations.

Looks like they are just assembling uppers with the PWS piston system. they are not the actual manufacturers of the parts that go into those uppers, i dunno if that matters to you or not, but it also means that you could buy all of those parts independently and assemble it yourself/have someone build it up for you. I think that Henderson Defense or Rainier Arms could produce something similar and customized for you.

If you go with the piston "upgrade" or "retrofit" then you have several different options

PWS
Adams Arms
CMMG
Bushmaster
POF (complete uppers)
Osprey Defense
Ares Defense

possibly others?



just my 2 cents
nateroach

 

[sewerman]

I don't know a lot of the pros and cons as I have never owned and or used a piston upper but just some general observations.

Looks like they are just assembling uppers with the PWS piston system. they are not the actual manufacturers of the parts that go into those uppers, i dunno if that matters to you or not, but it also means that you could buy all of those parts independently and assemble it yourself/have someone build it up for you. I think that Henderson Defense or Rainier Arms could produce something similar and customized for you.

If you go with the piston "upgrade" or "retrofit" then you have several different options


PWS
Adams Arms
CMMG
Bushmaster
POF (complete uppers)
Osprey Defense
Ares Defense

possibly others?


just my 2 cents
nateroach

thanks for providing with this investigation list i'll add Addax Arms to the list and start my reading tonite.
sincerely,
sewerman

 

[AZ_gun_lover]

I purchased a POF upper and really enjoy it. It's CROS system really keeps the bolt clean and cool. It's very accurate with the Mike Rock barrel too.

XCRs are great carbines also. However you could get a POF upper and get the lower that you want (NM trigger, hogue grips, stock of your choice) much easier IMO.

 

[rob_s]

I like the XCR's basic design, in theory.

In application, there appear to be quite a few failures at higher round counts. Users that have really put them through their paces, 1k-5k+ rounds, seem few and far between. They do seem to be cropping up a bit more in classes, albeit with mixed review. I would also like to see options for better quality of parts like barrel steel and other rifling twists. Remember that the XCR is sole-source for parts, which is never a good thing.

As to piston ARs..... IMHO for 99% of buyers they are a solution in search of a problem, and I believe that there are many more issues than most of the conversion-kit makers have taken into account with their designs. Things like carrier tilt, piston breakages, parts compatibility (or lack thereof) etc.

As to the ACR, while I'd love to see one I doubt we ever will.

 

[BlackRifleMP]

DSArms piston rifle and uppers are made by POF for DSArms. Like I have posted befor POF is a very well built and very nice rifle. Very $$$$, you can save some $$ by just purchasing the upper and putting it on your own lower. POF's Lowers are overpriced, nice, but overpriced. LWRC is POF's main compatition they make a rifle that is just as nice as POF's ( my LWRC will be here in a few months I hope). The thing that sold me on the POF first was no spring on the op rod, and there were only 4 parts that are not standard on a regular AR/M16. The op rod, piston, gas key, gas block. That is what my 2005 upper was, the 2008 upper is a little different. The BCG has a impigment face built in now, the coating inside it is now on everything inside the upper for no lube needed and the piston is shorter by about 2 inches. The othere thing is the barel is not standard chrome lined whatever it is, is about 10 times more durable than milspec chrome lined. Anyway go with what you want and what fits you and your wallet.