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Discussion Starter #1
OK, here's the scenario ... I've got a AR Rifle, if I wanted to purchase a AR based Pistol, the uppers could be switched to make a SBR ... If you were considering this ... What would you do to remain legal ??

I'd hate to try to prove that I never intended to swap the uppers if the question ever came up with an ATF agent ???

Would you do the paperwork for an SBR even though that's not what you want ??
 

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One complete rifle and one complete pistol do not make for an "intent" charge (which is what I think you're trying to ask about).

One complete rifle with a pistol upper laying around can get you your "questions", and could lead to an "intent" charge.


Why pay for an SBR when you only want a pistol?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
One complete rifle and one complete pistol do not make for an "intent" charge (which is what I think you're trying to ask about).

One complete rifle with a pistol upper laying around can get you your "questions", and could lead to an "intent" charge.


Why pay for an SBR when you only want a pistol?
That's the thing, I don't really want an SBR ... But I sure don't want to try to prove to a court of law that I never intended, and never switched the parts around.

Perhaps a letter to the ATF would be the best way to get an answer. That way I would have something in writing if the question ever came up.
 

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If you have an AR pistol or a registered SBR you can own however many short uppers you like. As long as there is one lower that can legally have a short upper, you're good.
 

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That's the thing, I don't really want an SBR ... But I sure don't want to try to prove to a court of law that I never intended, and never switched the parts around.

Perhaps a letter to the ATF would be the best way to get an answer. That way I would have something in writing if the question ever came up.
I'd suggest a more intensive search over at arfcom. They've answered this hundreds of times.

Another new letter to the ATF is another chance for them to reverse their previous stance.

They don't make the laws, you know, they just "interpret" it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If you have an AR pistol or a registered SBR you can own however many short uppers you like. As long as there is one lower that can legally have a short upper, you're good.
That's kind of what I figured ... I'm just wondering and thinking.

A $200 tax stamp isn't that big of a price compared to 10 years at Club Fed for wrongly interpreting how the ATF might interpret things.

nalioth,
I'll do some looking at arfcom, thanks!!
 

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no you do not have to have a get a SBR,

The burden of proof is on them to prove that you have violated the law or intended to. bascially so long as you never put the short upper on the lower there would be no proof that you have any intent on doing so.

I did a SBR and to be sure that there was no confusion (since i did't have an AR pistol) i did not purchase my upper until after my stamp came back

after than i went a head and picked up my upper,


if the ATF wants to trump up charges against you and put you through the ringer they are going to do it i wouldn't worry about the what ifs to much

Ive never had a reason to be afraid of the law coming after me and its never happened.

really the internet perpetuates the fear in gun owners. and really it puts out a lot of infomration to people we may or may not want having it. most of us feel nice and safe and secure living behind the anonimity of a screen name thinking that they won't know who we are. the Truth is im sure most everyone on here has been investigated to some extent and a file exist on each one of us right wing conservatieves (to read, Bitter americans holding on to our Guns and our God) and catagorized in leveles of threat (im sure mike is at the top of the list).

bascailly i wound't worry about what could happen and focus on not breaking the law. the truth will normally always prevail. Ususal suspects are normally the first ones picked up for a reason.
 

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oh and one quick question.

I always keep a copy of my Stamp in my range bag. i have my lower engraved, and todate ive never had anyone ever ask me to see my stamp not even for my sound suppressor. but they do normally get a lot of attention with the normal "how much did that cost ya" " is that legal" "how do you get one of those" buy never have i been asked "can i see your tax stamp to prove your SBR and suppressor are legal". has anyone else?
 

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If you want a pistol, and not an SBR just buy a pistol lower, if you posses the lower you can own the upper. The lower is the cheapest part of the whole thing. but if you own a shorty upper you better have a tax stamp or a pistol lower. I would bet a person could have an illegal SBR, and never have anyone check, but I wouldn't bank on it. Burden of proof = guilty until proven innocent.
 

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What everyone has said is correct. As it stands today, the ATF opinion is that you have to have some legal use for the short-barreled upper. You need a pistol lower or an SBR lower. A rifle with an extra short-barreled upper laying around with no legit use for it it bad news.

And to TJ's question - no, I've never been asked about my SBR. I do keep a copy of my paperwork in my bag though, mostly in case I was stopped for speeding or something and somehow a search of my vehicle was conducted. Other than that I can't see an officer coming up to you at the range and demanding to see your paperwork.
 

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If I did not have an SBR but did own a 16"+ carbine or rifle, I would be real sure that If I also had a pistol that I only had one upper for it, and that I NEVER broke them both down to clean at the same time. IMHO it would be better to only have one or the other.

Paranoid? Perhaps. But obtaining a 'factory registered' SBR' so that engraving one's personal info permanently into the lower is not required (at least in some states) is not a bad thing IMO.

I'm no lawyer nor do I play one on the internet. I do believe that law-abiding citizens should be protected by the second amendment.
 
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