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I'm not buyin' it.

kypix
 

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Lol if it cost closer to $20, instead of $200, I might have considered it for a conversation piece. At $200, they'll likely go belly up, and I'll be amused by it.

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How many times can you reuse your brass? You figure since it's rimfire the rim will get torn up after a few reloads. Seems like a cool idea but way over priced. Hell I'd even be a buyer at 50 just to say I have it but 200$ no way.
 

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I'ld rather turn my empty 22lr into 223 bullets.
 

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What the heck are they using for priming compound? Powder... no problem. I think VV3N37 is already supposed to be a powder used in 22LR, and I'm sure there are several others that will fill the bill. But priming compound, that's another matter. Fulmate of lead is no joke. When wet it is pretty much the consistency of wet clay or a little thinner, and safe to handle. If it dries out, it is very touchy as you might expect of something used in primers. So sure, you can make bullets, resize the cases, even perhaps pound out or press out the crushed part of the rim, but you still have to "spin" the priming compound into the recesses of the rim to get it to shoot again, and that is no mean feat. To me this is not a very practical solution to the 22LR shortage. To do this right you need a fairly technical setup to do the priming after you make the priming compound, neither of which processes is something you and your wife and kids would like to be involved in on a regular basis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How many times can you reuse your brass? You figure since it's rimfire the rim will get torn up after a few reloads. Seems like a cool idea but way over priced. Hell I'd even be a buyer at 50 just to say I have it but 200$ no way.
Yeah just as a novelty it might be cool but the primer compound and they way its handled with this setup just doesn't seem safe.

I'ld rather turn my empty 22lr into 223 bullets.
Knew you'd pop in here with that :mrgreen:

What the heck are they using for priming compound? Powder... no problem. I think VV3N37 is already supposed to be a powder used in 22LR, and I'm sure there are several others that will fill the bill. But priming compound, that's another matter. Fulmate of lead is no joke. When wet it is pretty much the consistency of wet clay or a little thinner, and safe to handle. If it dries out, it is very touchy as you might expect of something used in primers. So sure, you can make bullets, resize the cases, even perhaps pound out or press out the crushed part of the rim, but you still have to "spin" the priming compound into the recesses of the rim to get it to shoot again, and that is no mean feat. To me this is not a very practical solution to the 22LR shortage. To do this right you need a fairly technical setup to do the priming after you make the priming compound, neither of which processes is something you and your wife and kids would like to be involved in on a regular basis.
Yeah it doesn't seem well thought out at all. Not a very safe process by any means - I think even manufacturers you talk to would say 22 is probably one of the riskier rounds to load because of the priming compound.

That, and for $200, you get a bullet caster/crimper, a couple brass rods, a funnel, and an eye dropper. Huge ripoff IMO
 

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Corrosive primer compounds, black powder and an un-lubed bullet. Yup, I'm going to run that through all my 22s.
 

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Yeah just as a novelty it might be cool but the primer compound and they way its handled with this setup just doesn't seem safe.

Knew you'd pop in here with that :mrgreen: (couldn't resist, forgive me for being weak)


Yeah it doesn't seem well thought out at all. Not a very safe process by any means - I think even manufacturers you talk to would say 22 is probably one of the riskier rounds to load because of the priming compound.

That, and for $200, you get a bullet caster/crimper, a couple brass rods, a funnel, and an eye dropper. Huge ripoff IMO
Plus you have to cast a heeled bullet & then Alox lube or sim. Seems a lot of work for little gain. I can load near 22lr equiv loads in 38sp or even 9mm for a little more $$ per rd & a lot less hassle & 100% reliability. Any priming compound you are going to make will be suspect. 22lr are already finicky enough in a semiauto, throw in battered brass & suspect priming, seems an exercise in futility. The case would probably only reload once. The rim would be damaged beyond use after that.
For $200, I can get a ss press, dies & a bullet mold & pot to ladle cast. I can be shooting 38sp or light 9mm for less than you can buy 22lr.
 

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I have often dreamed of wildcatting a centerfire pistol 22 caliber round. I don't want a bottleneck type since they are a pain to reload, and as Fred pointed out, the heeled bullet used in regular 22LR is a non-starter too. I guess it would look like a "25 magnum" with a tapered case or something of that ilk (Like a 221 Fireball but much smaller). Maybe we should all lobby Ruger or some other manufacturer who makes both rifles and pistols and see what might be done about this. It should be rimless and something that can use standard components (powders, primers, and bullets) but be easy to reload and handle. The 22 rimfire is the last of the rimfire rounds because centerfire is much more reliable, reloadable, and versatile. It's about time we moved small 22cal rounds into the 21st century.
 

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Centerfire .22 isn't likely to ever be economically viable.

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I have often dreamed of wildcatting a centerfire pistol 22 caliber round. I don't want a bottleneck type since they are a pain to reload, and as Fred pointed out, the heeled bullet used in regular 22LR is a non-starter too. I guess it would look like a "25 magnum" with a tapered case or something of that ilk (Like a 221 Fireball but much smaller). Maybe we should all lobby Ruger or some other manufacturer who makes both rifles and pistols and see what might be done about this. It should be rimless and something that can use standard components (powders, primers, and bullets) but be easy to reload and handle. The 22 rimfire is the last of the rimfire rounds because centerfire is much more reliable, reloadable, and versatile. It's about time we moved small 22cal rounds into the 21st century.
Instead of Small Pistol Magnum they'd have to make Small Pistol Micro. :rolleyes:

Wonder how much more uummmph (is that a word) a normal small pistol primer has compared to a standard velocity .22LR
 

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I have often dreamed of wildcatting a centerfire pistol 22 caliber round. I don't want a bottleneck type since they are a pain to reload, and as Fred pointed out, the heeled bullet used in regular 22LR is a non-starter too. I guess it would look like a "25 magnum" with a tapered case or something of that ilk (Like a 221 Fireball but much smaller). Maybe we should all lobby Ruger or some other manufacturer who makes both rifles and pistols and see what might be done about this. It should be rimless and something that can use standard components (powders, primers, and bullets) but be easy to reload and handle. The 22 rimfire is the last of the rimfire rounds because centerfire is much more reliable, reloadable, and versatile. It's about time we moved small 22cal rounds into the 21st century.
if it was possible and economically viable, it would have already been accomplished; 22LR ammo is expensive and complicated to produce, difficult to QC and low return on investment in anything but the pre-panic ginormous selling numbers...

Keep in mind, it is also the only round thats allowed for private ownership in many European countries (who have none of the current issues we do with supply btw) and prior to the 2011/12 wave of Stupid, was among the most common and largest selling cartridge in the US...considering sales are picking back up at a snail's pace for any firearms currently, do not see a whole lot of time/money/effort being dedicated to something that isn't broken from the manufacturers' perspectives...

we can't find 22lr because price gouging ammo hoarding asshats are still finding schmucks to pay ridiculously inflated prices...thats a problem for consumers since manufacturers are making the same money either way
 

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Instead of Small Pistol Magnum they'd have to make Small Pistol Micro. :rolleyes:

Wonder how much more uummmph (is that a word) a normal small pistol primer has compared to a standard velocity .22LR
You know... I thought about that "micro primer" thing since a small pistol primer is pretty big compared to the 22LR case itself, but they do use them in the 25 Auto cartridge, so I think its doable using a long case similar to the 25 Auto but with some taper to come down to about .247-.248 outside diameter at the case mouth.

As to the relative power, I am sure that the small pistol primer is at least as potent as the priming compound in the rim of the 22LR. It is more focused though as it shoots through a hole into the powder charge rather than burning outward at the rim. I am pretty sure the powder used in 22LR is loaded to 100% density so there are no problems with powder not being exposed to primer flame if the shooter where to be shooting downhill or something. That is, that there is no problem with "position sensitivity" whereby the powder is not in contact with priming compound per se'.
 

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if it was possible and economically viable, it would have already been accomplished; 22LR ammo is expensive and complicated to produce, difficult to QC and low return on investment in anything but the pre-panic ginormous selling numbers...

Keep in mind, it is also the only round thats allowed for private ownership in many European countries (who have none of the current issues we do with supply btw) and prior to the 2011/12 wave of Stupid, was among the most common and largest selling cartridge in the US...considering sales are picking back up at a snail's pace for any firearms currently, do not see a whole lot of time/money/effort being dedicated to something that isn't broken from the manufacturers' perspectives...

we can't find 22lr because price gouging ammo hoarding asshats are still finding schmucks to pay ridiculously inflated prices...thats a problem for consumers since manufacturers are making the same money either way
This is all very true and relevant when 22LR was going for about 3c per round. If it does not return to that level, I can easily see it be viable to have a reloadable alternative with a wider bullet weight range. If 22LR stays at say, 8c per round then reloadable 22JSG (ok, I can dream!) would be economically equal or preferable in that it could most likely be reloaded for 6-7c each or less. Coated lead bullet would be about 3c, the primer 2.5, and about 1/2c for the powder. Plus I think it would be closer to 22 Magnum velocity and those are WAY costlier so yes, I think it's a possible option. Also, this would be a rimless round, so double stack magazines would be the way to go making a 25rnd or better capacity in a standard sized grip for a pistol, and your imagination as to what you do with a box fed rifle. So, more velocity, better bullet selection, reloadable, more capacity, more reliable, and inexpensive... what's not to like!
 

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This is all very true and relevant when 22LR was going for about 3c per round. If it does not return to that level, I can easily see it be viable to have a reloadable alternative with a wider bullet weight range. If 22LR stays at say, 8c per round then reloadable 22JSG (ok, I can dream!) would be economically equal or preferable in that it could most likely be reloaded for 6-7c each or less. Coated lead bullet would be about 3c, the primer 2.5, and about 1/2c for the powder. Plus I think it would be closer to 22 Magnum velocity and those are WAY costlier so yes, I think it's a possible option. Also, this would be a rimless round, so double stack magazines would be the way to go making a 25rnd or better capacity in a standard sized grip for a pistol, and your imagination as to what you do with a box fed rifle. So, more velocity, better bullet selection, reloadable, more capacity, more reliable, and inexpensive... what's not to like!

the thing is, we are thinking like consumers...think like a producer who doesn't look past the figures on his desk, that say every round of 22LR, 22Mag and 22Short are sold before they're finished...the stores are reordering before their shipment clears the loading docks...why on Earth would they change constant demand for possible interest?

I am not saying I wouldn't be intrigued by your proposal--as a handloader damn skippy I would be ;)--but realistically speaking, the price and availability of ammo is our problem, not theirs...they don't see a problem...
 

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the thing is, we are thinking like consumers...think like a producer who doesn't look past the figures on his desk, that say every round of 22LR, 22Mag and 22Short are sold before they're finished...the stores are reordering before their shipment clears the loading docks...why on Earth would they change constant demand for possible interest?

I am not saying I wouldn't be intrigued by your proposal--as a handloader damn skippy I would be ;)--but realistically speaking, the price and availability of ammo is our problem, not theirs...they don't see a problem...
I agree with all you are saying. I don't think of any such "wildcat" or even "new" round as a direct replacement for rimfire 22. There are just too many 22 rimfire guns in existence to ignore that market. Yet the economics are there if rimfire rounds continue to be too expensive. There is the problem of guns and magazines as well (though rimfire mags might be modified with a simple follower change... but not a for double stack). If, for instance, I could get someone to actually make the cases (not as big a problem as it seems if you have capital to buy a bunch), I would then be forced to more or less smith up my own "one off" gun for which I no longer have access to the equipment to make one. Still... it presents an interesting alternative as a small game and target round. The most ambitious way to go would be to interest a gun manufacturer like say, Ruger, who has made new rounds and guns in the past. If an entity like that could be convinced that there was a substantial market for such a gun and round things would obviously go more smoothly. Since the base of the case is larger than a standard 22 rimfire type, it would not have to be much longer than a 22LR to achieve 22 Magnum velocities, and could indeed surpass it. Since the bullet goes entirely inside the case (not a heeled bullet), the case capacity is larger to begin with, even discounting the slight taper I envisioned of similarity with the 9X19 case. It's a worthy dream. After all, there have been introductions of other rimfire rounds in .17 caliber that, I would wager, have less potential for general acceptance than my proposal. It could happen! I might win a lottery or something.
 
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