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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Went to zero the Romeo on my Hellcat. Due to rules at the local range it wasn’t easy to use the rest they had on the small bench with no seat. Overall I hit it dialed pretty close. Will have to refine it when I get back out to an open range. First pic is 2 mags offhand when I was done. 2nd is 50 rounds through my Elite 4.5.
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Hi,

Yes! That looks pretty darn close! :D


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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a certain amount of the group is your set up at the range with no seat, trigger pull.

For me, zero'd means zero'd
not almost zero'd.

But only you will be able to decide if you need to refine it based on what type of shooting you will be doing and results.
I zero sights, scopes and red dots in my tandem garage, using a laser bullet and target at the back wall. about 38 ft......
a good starting point.


And remember, once it is totally dialed on. it only be zeroed at the distance you choose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
a certain amount of the group is your set up at the range with no seat, trigger pull.

For me, zero'd means zero'd
not almost zero'd.

But only you will be able to decide if you need to refine it based on what type of shooting you will be doing and results.
I zero sights, scopes and red dots in my tandem garage, using a laser bullet and target at the back wall. about 38 ft......
a good starting point.


And remember, once it is totally dialed on. it only be zeroed at the distance you choose.
My plan is to go to a better range and get a true zero. A friend has offered his laser bore sight for me to use and that should help.
And always need to know up or down at other distances. But with a pistol it’s never going to be far.
Semper Fi!
 

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The laser should help you get "on-paper," but whether it will actually help you zero can depend on a lot of other factors - things that actually complicate the zero process more than it needs to.
  • What's the distance of your attempts above?
  • What are the approximate dimensions of (A) the head scoring zone and (B) the X, 10, and 9 rings of the center-mass zone?
Depending on your reply above, it's well possible that you can skip the laser.

Instead, refinement may be more dependent on -as both you and @Old marine noted- your ability to find a better rest/bagging situation.

This is an interesting discussion on the P&S Forums regarding the pistol zero, and applies regardless of sighting system:


Overlap this with both Larry Vickers' look at the term "Accuracy" (https://www.vickerstactical.com/accuracy.html) as well as Tim Herron's 7-yards/25-yards write-up (Tim Herron's shooting tip. - UnitedGunGroup) - and it's easy to see why the 25 yard line is the typical benchmark distance for the pistol zero, where it comes to the action shooting sports as well as defensive/duty handguns.

As for shooting at-distance?

Once you've gotten intimate with the dot, you'll see just how much your eyesight might have been the limitation where it comes to distances. :) In addition to really shining for moving targets and at speed where shorter distances are concerned (with both of these, "threat-focus" helps tremendously), the dot also helps out a lot when shooters start to push yardage. Good pistol shooters can easily ring static B/C-zone steel well out to the 100 yard line - with either iron or dot.

Note that some of the discussion in the P&S article above also mentioned ammunition concerns: this is very important to take note of.

-----

PS: Herron's 7/25 difference is also presented in video format below:

 

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so i will give my personal experience with a buddy's wife G34 race pistol. Holsum ted dot.
i dialed it in at 15 yds (measured with a tape measure) using a bore laser.

She took it out loved it.
A week.later he n i were running 25 yd drills on a private range. so from the holster, paper targets. Him using her G34, me my G19 Gucci with Trijicon.
after I out shoot him through 5 drills, he told me that the zero was off.
i used my laser range finder and moved him to 15 yds.


dead on.

i use an actual work bench, a bench rest and velcro straps to remove as much of me out the process.
work the zero over and over until it is as perfect as my 20/20 eye sight can make it. (cataract surgery, yo)

make sure you dial it in fir the yardage you expect to use most often.

imho, if that is 100 yds, you have the wrong weapon in mind
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The laser should help you get "on-paper," but whether it will actually help you zero can depend on a lot of other factors - things that actually complicate the zero process more than it needs to.
  • What's the distance of your attempts above?
  • What are the approximate dimensions of (A) the head scoring zone and (B) the X, 10, and 9 rings of the center-mass zone?
Depending on your reply above, it's well possible that you can skip the laser.

Instead, refinement may be more dependent on -as both you and @Old marine noted- your ability to find a better rest/bagging situation.

The red or 10 is 3x3
9 is 4x5 and 8 is 6x8. Head zone is a 3 inch circle.
this is not the target used for the zero.
Shots above are 7 yards. Zeroing was at 10.
The 2nd pic is not the hellcat with red dot. It is my Elite with irons.
Unless it’s for some kind of friendly competition with friends I have no plans to shoot a pistol more than 25 yards.
Using the laser will only be if I don’t get a break in the weather soon on aday I can get out to the hills.
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so i will give my personal experience with a buddy's wife G34 race pistol. Holsum ted dot.
i dialed it in at 15 yds (measured with a tape measure) using a bore laser.

She took it out loved it.
A week.later he n i were running 25 yd drills on a private range. so from the holster, paper targets. Him using her G34, me my G19 Gucci with Trijicon.
after I out shoot him through 5 drills, he told me that the zero was off.
i used my laser range finder and moved him to 15 yds.


dead on.

i use an actual work bench, a bench rest and velcro straps to remove as much of me out the process.
work the zero over and over until it is as perfect as my 20/20 eye sight can make it. (cataract surgery, yo)

make sure you dial it in fir the yardage you expect to use most often.
It's less about knowing the "most often" and more about knowing the external ballistics at any distance - the offset for closer distances, and the hold over (or under, depending on caliber/platform) at longer.

Absolutely, the zero is only applicable at one distance - even moreso for the defensive/duty handgun, but the idea of understanding how the POA/POI relationship shifts depending on both distances as well as the specifics of the load (i.e. duty/defensive ammo versus range-fodder differences) is a skillset that every shooter should strive towards.

imho, if that is 100 yds, you have the wrong weapon in mind
and

Unless it’s for some kind of friendly competition with friends I have no plans to shoot a pistol more than 25 yards.
;)

It's not about engaging (whether it be for effective - https://www.statesman.com/NEWS/2016...hot-last-year-put-a-stop-to-a-night-of-terror - or covering fire) - and more about understanding that the handgun/sidearm is itself much more capable as a platform than many shooters give it credit for.

Vickers' demand of mechanical accuracy at 2.5-inches/25 yards for defensive/duty pistols (using for-purpose ammunition) translates to very realistic, stress-induced degradation in shooter performance as well as real-world duty/defensive scenarios. Mr. Jack Wilson's threat-ending shot inside the West Freeway Church of Christ was determined by forensics to be between 15 to 16 yards.

Certainly, ringing steel at the 100 is a lot different from a 15 yard head shot on a moving threat in a real-life deadly-force encounter - but the capability to do so translates directly from one to the other.

Tim Herron's demonstration that a 3/4-inch nominal group at 7 yards prints to a nominal 2 and 5/8 inches at the 25 directly ties-in to Vickers' definition of mechanical and practical "accuracy."

I'm not suggesting that I can make that 100 yard shot that Sgt. Adam Johnson made - nor that 15-yard shot that Mr. Wilson made. I'm also not purporting to claim whether it is proper to engage a threat -in any scenario- at the 100 yard line (or any other protracted distance) with a defensive/duty handgun. I'm simply using known benchmarks to illustrate what is possible, and citing what level of performance good shooters with properly set up handguns can produce, cold and on-demand - performance which is only enhanced with the modern slide-mounted mini/micro-RDS, which works towards the human biologic threat-response as well as mitigates the effect of age/disease. :)
 

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Went to zero the Romeo on my Hellcat. Due to rules at the local range it wasn’t easy to use the rest they had on the small bench with no seat. Overall I hit it dialed pretty close. Will have to refine it when I get back out to an open range. First pic is 2 mags offhand when I was done. 2nd is 50 rounds through my Elite 4.5. View attachment 847802 View attachment 847803

Ouch! He's dead for sure nice shooting.
 
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