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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I decided to order a Vortex red dot scope/sight from MidWayUSA after reading some good feedback on them. I have never owned nor used a red dot of any kind really.

I would like to know how they are effectively used, what range of effectiveness/accuracy do they usually have with a 1x type and how are they at shooting accuracy over "xx" distances versus close range?

I guess my basic question would be better asked; will they be accurate at 100 yards as much as they are at 50 yards? Are they like scopes and have to be boresighted at specific ranges?
 

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Anything sighted at 50 yards will have a different point of impact at any other distance. With o magnification, you will surely be more accurate at 50 than 100, red dots are not really target sights for shooting groups, they do allow for quicker target aquisition. I have shot targets out past 100 with mine but they accell more in the CQB type of role.
 

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From my limited experience (just my AR), if your red dot co-witnesses with your iron sights, then it will work as far as you are comfortable shooting your rifle.

Back in the day with my M16A1 we would shoot out to 300 meters with irons...hell, I can't see that far even with a hunting scope these days! ;)

I have hunted with my AR and am comfortable out to about 150 yards using my red dot.

You will have to sight it in just as you would any other scope...especially if you want to co-witness your irons!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Oh thanks for bringing up other points I was curious about! I am hoping this red dot I ordered will co-witness with my irons. I guess I will have to wait and see what rings to get to make it the proper height to co-witness.

Yes, I was aware red dots are more for CQC and is really what I bought my rifle for even though I do go to the range for some target practice with it.

I guess range adjustment with red dots are just a lesson learning how much to adjust? I am assuming there are no range finding/mil dots on most 1x red dots?
 

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this is my .02 to me red dots are for CQC mostly 50 t0 100 yard
but their has being some pepol that have use it further than that
but they do make red dots that go from 2x 3x 4x magnification
i personally keep mine at 25 to 50 yard but that is just me
 

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I have one on my 450BM and use it for hunting up to about 100 yds. I will take a shot past that, but I bought the upper for hogs and most single shots to various spots on their bodies have done the job very well. I can keep them inside an 8" circle at 100 yds, but actual shot placement on them seems to be limited to my vision. Most red dots I've looked through were a bit blurry, but mine has a very fine illuminated cross hair. Tomorrow I will post some pictures of how it looks.
 

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A good reflex red dot sight (I have a C-More railway click-switch sight) will be much more accurate and faster to shoot that iron sights. When one shoots with iron sights, the focus is on the front sight, the target blurs, the rear peep is very blurred, and tunnel vision occurs. When the target is a threat to you, the natural tendency is to focus on the target and the front sight is blurred, impairing accuracy. Usually the off eye is squinted with a grimace on the shooter's face. If you get out of alignment with the peep (easy to do when concentrating on the front sight), you will have parallax problems.

When you get past 40 years, the target gets even more blurred when you focus on the front sight. Also, squinting cuts down on the total available light hitting your retina, so as you get older you will probably want to shoot with both eyes wide open.

The red dot solves these problems by allowing you to focus on both the red dot and target at the same time. The eye is not strained by switching from the target to the dot. The red dot follows your eye placement/cheek weld, eliminating parallax problems. Both eyes are wide open allowing maximum light and permitting good peripheral vision. The shooters face is relaxed allowing a longer hold/aiming time.

It pays to have a quality red dot and the C-More is an excellent quality piece. On cheaper reflex-type sights, I have found that the windage/elevation settings can drift with recoil requiring tedious trial-and-error adjustment and having set screws just right. So even though a cheap sight looks good at the shop, it may not perform at the range.

Accuracy also depends on the MOA dot size. I have a 6 MOA dot and have ordered a 4 MOA dot module.
 

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Here're a couple of applications for which I've found the excellent, though inexpensive Tasco PDP3 to work well. Now have three PDP3s. My original is 12-15 yrs-old, and has rested atop a Mod 29 Smith .44 Magnum, my Glocks, and my 10-22.

Like Wild Rice says, I shoot with both eyes open and find the 5m.o.a. dot pretty effective out to 100 yds. Co-witnessing is irrelevant to the range at which you can use a red dot. My red dots have, I believe 1/4moa-per-click adjustments, just like most "regular" scopes.



 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Co-witnessing is irrelevant to the range at which you can use a red dot. My red dots have, I believe 1/4moa-per-click adjustments, just like most "regular" scopes.

That is understandable. What I am wondering is a situation where I would need to shoot at a much farther distance than what my red dot is zeroed at. If I needed to use BUIS will they co-witness through a red dot such as the one you pictured?
 

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That is understandable. What I am wondering is a situation where I would need to shoot at a much farther distance than what my red dot is zeroed at. If I needed to use BUIS will they co-witness through a red dot such as the one you pictured?
You shouldn't need to use BUIS for something past what your dot is zeroed at. Learn the rise/drop at different ranges and you can send it as far as you can accurately see.
 

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That is understandable. What I am wondering is a situation where I would need to shoot at a much farther distance than what my red dot is zeroed at. If I needed to use BUIS will they co-witness through a red dot such as the one you pictured?
I used to not like the Eotech with the Circle and dot in the middle. I thought it would be precise enough. In CQB though, just drop that circle anywhere on the torso and fire away. I can't remember what the MOA is on that Eotech right now, but If you put the center dot on the guys head, and the bottom half on his torso, its a hit. Like someone else said, the chances of shooting past 100yds is pretty slim, especially in a city. That is where my M1A comes in! :twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
well, I hate to keep changing the variables here but I guess I have to to get the bases covered.

What if I want to go range shooting at 300 yards? Will I have to remove my red dot to use my irons?

I was planning to sight the irons at 150 to 200 yards and the red dot at 50 yards.

If I need to remove the red dot I would probably lose my zero and have to do it all over again when I put it back on.

I would like to have a solution to cover both ranges and not have to keep removing things.
 

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If you zero at 25, then you're just about the same at 100. zeroing at 50 is about the same out to 200.

In my opinion, if you are going to co-witness your irons and your red dot. zero it at 50. I keep mine at 50, once zeroed, it stays there.

Then learn where your shots fall at different distances.

toolbox, how do you keep yours at 25-50? do you always re-zero your sight every time you go to the range? I sure hope you don't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you zero at 25, then you're just about the same at 100. zeroing at 50 is about the same out to 200.

In my opinion, if you are going to co-witness your irons and your red dot. zero it at 50. I keep mine at 50, once zeroed, it stays there.

So you are saying you can zero your red dot at 50, remove it for some reason, put it back on the weapon and it remains zeroed at 50?
 

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Sight in your irons at whatever range you want. Turn the red dot off and just look through it. Then you could use the elevation knobs on your Irons.

Or get a magnifier.
 

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This is all part of being a good rifleman, and knowing your holdovers/unders at various distances.

There isn't an optic made that allows you to zero the gun at one distance and shoot it at multiple other distances without rangefinding or other multiple-POA reticules. And even then you're really just holding over/under to another reticule.

Zero the sights at 50 yards. Re-zero at 200 yards. Check at 100 for needed hold-under. Re-check zero at 50 (should still be good). Check for holdover amount at distances less than 25, and (if needed) greater than 300.

In terms of accuracy potential, a red dot sight is capable of making hits to 200 in my experience (never shot an AR with a dot further than that). Target ID becomes an issue in brush or crowds, but a decent shooter can make the hits with the optic.

Oh, and backup irons are not there for use at various distances. They are there for use when the RDS goes down, hence the name. IMHO they should be zeroed at the same distance as the RDS.
 

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With my Bi-focals, quickly finding my scope has been a problem, but I believe I've found the solution in a side mounted, Burris, Halo type red dot.:mrgreen: While watching Jerry Miculek fire his AR I noticed he held it cocked at 11 O'clock and was looking down the right hand side of his scope.:cool: On closer obsevation I saw he had a Halo type red dot cantalevered off of the top rail behind his scope. With the red dot zeroed for 50 yds, he uses it for quick, close-in shooting, then moves to the scope for longer ranges.:mrgreen: Jack
 

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Necro posting again :)))

I definitely used the Army's standard CCO red dot to shoot 300 meters consistently, and "precisely". If I ever scored less than expert there was something seriously wrong. Idk why some people don't like the red dot, I absolutely loved it, even for 300m accuracy (of course, that's minute of man I suppose). If I could afford to buy one just like it, I would.. Unfortunately I cannot even afford to buy a cheap red dot ($200-$250) at this moment in life. Wish I could, but I can't. So iron sights and a cheap $30 red dot for HD works for now.
I am however proud to call myself a firearm enthusiast, and am honored to be allowed to post on these forums where there are far FAR more experienced men/women sharing their knowledge.
I <3 Red Dots... More than long range scopes. Everything has their uses, but I believe I would be comfortable shooting past 300m with the army red dot cco, for minute of man. Life is short, enjoy every bit of it, learn from everything, squeeze every drop out of this one life.
Thanks all.
 
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