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Man iv been handling and laser training with an optic for the past few days. I'm gonna keep the optic on until I can do some testing with live rounds. As you can tell I went with a budget setup I wasn't sure if optics on pistols are for me (I still aint). There's no denying there easier on the eyes.
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I did receive my truglo tfo sights yesterday but I think they will go on either a XD45 or XDsc40.
 

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Man iv been handling and laser training with an optic for the past few days. I'm gonna keep the optic on until I can do some testing with live rounds. As you can tell I went with a budget setup I wasn't sure if optics on pistols are for me (I still aint). There's no denying there easier on the eyes.
View attachment 847792
I did receive my truglo tfo sights yesterday but I think they will go on either a XD45 or XDsc40.
You're trying to see if you would like to be a NASCAR driver, using a big wheel with that setup.

You current setup is to high, you won't get a natural point of aim, so you won't like it. That's just the first problem.
Chasing a laser is the next problem.

The only reason a red dot would not be better is if the person has eye issues (astigmatism, etc).
 

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Man iv been handling and laser training with an optic for the past few days. I'm gonna keep the optic on until I can do some testing with live rounds. As you can tell I went with a budget setup I wasn't sure if optics on pistols are for me (I still aint). There's no denying there easier on the eyes.
View attachment 847792
I did receive my truglo tfo sights yesterday but I think they will go on either a XD45 or XDsc40.
I put a set of trijicon xd night sight with the yellow front sight on my xde .45
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You're trying to see if you would like to be a NASCAR driver, using a big wheel with that setup.

You current setup is to high, you won't get a natural point of aim, so you won't like it. That's just the first problem.
Chasing a laser is the next problem.

The only reason a red dot would not be better is if the person has eye issues (astigmatism, etc).
Not true !
 

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Another thing not being mentioned if your using a micro reddot those things take alot of practice to get use too. Bringing the gun up to picture with dot in place is very difficult. It takes a ton of practice to get use to it. I have a micro green dot on my xdsc9 and I'm gonna be taking it off. The reason why for me is transitioning between standard sights and the optic is very difficult. If I go a few days without practicing with the optic it's almost like relearning everytime. The difference in performance is not worth the cons. I'm still quicker with standard sights. The optic helped me be a little more accurate but at 10yards its minimal and speed is king.
Optic vs sights using laser trainer
The guy I've been doing some training with (who is a solid RDS advocate) put it to me this way. It's a great tool but takes a lot of practice before you should even consider using it as an EDC. Once you can put the dot on the target quickly AND consistently it is a great accessory. I've done a few sessions with him over the past couple of months, there are days when it's super fast and I'm easily doing the 5 shots in a 5" circle at 5 yards in under 5 seconds drawing from concealment, but other days not so much. I think it says more about my current abilities with the RDS, I still feel I'm more consistent with the iron sights. I don't really notice the additional size with the RDS but did have to switch to a different holster to accommodate it. Just my 2¢.
 

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Not true !
Yeah your right you gotta spend the big money or it doesn't count. Using optics especially micro optics. Isn't a easy thing to do. Doesn't matter if you spent $80 or $1000. To me the problem with optics is transitioning from standard sights to optics. A few days without an optic and bringing the optic with the dot in place up to target consistently is difficult to me.
 

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Yeah your right you gotta spend the big money or it doesn't count. Using optics especially micro optics. Isn't a easy thing to do. Doesn't matter if you spent $80 or $1000. To me the problem with optics is transitioning from standard sights to optics. A few days without an optic and bringing the optic with the dot in place up to target consistently is difficult to me.
The post you quoted and replied "not true" referenced the mickey mouse setup you're using.
It said it wasn't mounted correctly and because of that you won't learn properly. It also said chasing a laser is bad, ie why you're not learning.

"Micro optics" has eff all NOTHING to do with it. My RMRcc has the exact same size dot as my full size RMR. It is mostly technique in the presentation of the firearm.

You know zip about the subject, why not just shut your mouth and learn?

If you spend a week doing the proper training you will have it down good enough to start using it outside your (insert the area you train).

If I tell myself I'm going to fail, then buy improper equipment for the job, half ass the effort to learn, guess what. I'll probably fail.


BTW: if I said you're using a Honda Accord to try to see if you want to be a NASCAR driver, THAT would be a reference to the cheap foreign garbage you bought.
But I didnt do that, I went all the way to "big wheel" to point out how far off that setup is from being useful.
 

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The post you quoted and replied "not true" referenced the mickey mouse setup you're using.
It said it wasn't mounted correctly and because of that you won't learn properly. It also said chasing a laser is bad, ie why you're not learning.

"Micro optics" has eff all NOTHING to do with it. My RMRcc has the exact same size dot as my full size RMR. It is mostly technique in the presentation of the firearm.

You know zip about the subject, why not just shut your mouth and learn?

If you spend a week doing the proper training you will have it down good enough to start using it outside your (insert the area you train).

If I tell myself I'm going to fail, then buy improper equipment for the job, half ass the effort to learn, guess what. I'll probably fail.


BTW: if I said you're using a Honda Accord to try to see if you want to be a NASCAR driver, THAT would be a reference to the cheap foreign garbage you bought.
But I didnt do that, I went all the way to "big wheel" to point out how far off that setup is from being useful.
I got it spend alot of money, Don't train using a laser trainer (chasing lasers?), & take a tactical class.
Now I'm all ready for success 👍.

Your the guy shooting the $10k over and under. That gets beat by the guy with a $85 pump.
 

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The guy I've been doing some training with (who is a solid RDS advocate) put it to me this way. It's a great tool but takes a lot of practice before you should even consider using it as an EDC. Once you can put the dot on the target quickly AND consistently it is a great accessory. I've done a few sessions with him over the past couple of months, there are days when it's super fast and I'm easily doing the 5 shots in a 5" circle at 5 yards in under 5 seconds drawing from concealment, but other days not so much. I think it says more about my current abilities with the RDS, I still feel I'm more consistent with the iron sights. I don't really notice the additional size with the RDS but did have to switch to a different holster to accommodate it. Just my 2¢.
Makes sense. That's my point consistency, now we think about the weapons that are getting equipped with optics. We are talking about subs and micros. With my xdsc9 out of the box 5" @ 5 yards with 5sec sounds doable to me. To do the same with a optic would take additional practice for me. Time and more importantly money. Not to mention my factory sights made of steel will never fail. Will never need adjusting or batteries. What will the optic do? That your standard sights won't? And at what cost? @ 7 yards under stress in a real world situation I doubt we ever use our sights.
 

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I got it spend alot of money, Don't train using a laser trainer (chasing lasers?), & take a tactical class.
Now I'm all ready for success .

Your the guy shooting the $10k over and under. That gets beat by the guy with a $85 pump.

You were told the problems, you want to continue arguing as opposed to correcting the problems, that is a perfect recipe for failure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Gentleman the purpose of my question was should I put a red dot on my hellcat, not how to use it or train with it. I spent 20 years as a Small Arms Instructor and 5 years training special ops in weapons use. I can use a red dot. I was looking for how it effects concealability.
 

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Gentleman the purpose of my question was should I put a red dot on my hellcat, not how to use it or train with it. I spent 20 years as a Small Arms Instructor and 5 years training special ops in weapons use. I can use a red dot. I was looking for how it effects concealability.
Obviously it adds to the foot print of any firearm and a little weight. I say that for anything inside of 10 yards the benefits are slim to none. It's definitely different and fun to explore. I have 4 pistols with optics none of which I would use for home defense or carry. I say try it out and see what you think.
 

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I had a Swampfox Sentinel on my Hellcat and didn't like it so I removed it. Then I decided to try it again because its just sitting in the closet and thats a waste $$$. Went to the range, dialed it in again and now I like it. Im using a Mitch Rosen 5JR holster with this pistol and its very comfortable. Optic has no weight to it and doesn't get in the way of a draw. Would I do it again with another pistol, probably not but this little banger is made for it.
 

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I had a Swampfox Sentinel on my Hellcat and didn't like it so I removed it. Then I decided to try it again because its just sitting in the closet and thats a waste $$$. Went to the range, dialed it in again and now I like it. Im using a Mitch Rosen 5JR holster with this pistol and its very comfortable. Optic has no weight to it and doesn't get in the way of a draw. Would I do it again with another pistol, probably not but this little banger is made for it.
Nice! Yes, experiment see if it works for you. Anytime you add a exterior part it will add to the size and weight. The weight and size really is minimal almost not noticeable. It's consistency that's important. My problem is day to day consistency. A few days with out practice and it's less forgiving than standard pistol sights but again that's me. To each there own. Experiment it's fun and again in a real world situation I doubt we even bother using our sights. It will probably more of a point and shoot scenario.
 

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I have a hellcat osp trying to decide between putting on a red dot or not opinions.
I went with the Swampfox Sentinel Green Dot on my Springfield Armory Hell Cat along with the Hogue Beaver Tail Grip Sleeve and I must say I have not been sorry !!
The accuracy of this micro-compact with the Swampfox Sentinel Green Dot is phenomenal. I would not take anything for it.
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