Recoil spring confusion

1232 Views 8 Replies 6 Participants Last post by wJAKE19, Mar 8, 2005

mpholic

Discussion Starter · Mar 7, 2005

I finally have convinced my wife she needs to shoot something other a .22 so Sunday we went to the range and I started her on my Glock 17and XD9 Service. She seemed to do OK but still doesn't like the recoil, I told her she would get used to it.

In an effort to try and make things easier for her I started doing some research on reducing felt recoil by change recoils spring weight. Well this seems (to me at least) to be as back and forth an issue as the light/fast vs heavy/slow bullet issue.

I have found articles that say heavier springs reduce felt recoil because they slow it down and don't hit the frame as hard. I know a lot of people here have installed heavier springs. But wont the barrel hit the breech face harder now causing just as much shock but later in the process?

On CGR web page I have read go lighter because it speeds up the recoil so you don't notice it as much (once again the problem is the slide hits the frame harder instead of the barrel hitting the breech face hard).

The only thing I have figured out for sure is that changing springs changes the timing of the action.

Am I way off on this or is this another it depends on who you talk to issue?

Sorry if this has been discussed to death before.

Thanks

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Fly-Sig

· #2 · Mar 8, 2005

A cartridge develops a certain amount of pressure which shoves the slide back. That energy doesn't depend on the spring at all. All the spring does is change how long the slide takes to move back, so the spring can spread the force out over time.

It seems counter intuitive to me that a stiffer spring would reduce the recoil. It would change the nature of the recoil but not the total magnitude. In my unscientific experience it seems that the lighter springs on my Sigs result in a softer feeling recoil. YMMV.

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wJAKE19

· #3 · Mar 8, 2005

this is a great debate,
I would like some real science applied to these theorys.
does anyone know a website or somthing that shows the pounds of felt recoil from an XD or maybe a glock with different spring weights?

or is there no change in pounds of recoil, only felt recoil?????????????

maybe we should ask this in Don's forum, he may know.?.?

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9mmMakarov

· #4 · Mar 8, 2005

Felt recoil is much more than the total impulse. Recoil is most severe when all that impulse or some great part of it is imparted on the shooter at one time, like when the slid hits the stops. A heaver spring will take a significant amount of momentum out of the slide before it hits the stops, so that when it does, it does so with much less force.

Human physiology is well able to handle constant (at least over fractions of a second) force, it's the instantaneous high forces that we notice and feel discomfort.

Some larger machine guns and automatic cannon employ continuous recoil which provides a long enough action for the bolt group to never hit the back stops. Other systems (like the Orelikon FFL) have an increasingly stiff range of slings, getting stiffer as the bolt travels back, meaning that the force on the firer (or mounting) smothly incrteases, but does not have the sharp peak that is so distracting to the firer or destrutive to a fixed mounting.

With that in mind, a stiffer spring should reduce felt recoil (though the total impulse remains the same). It justs takes that force and spreads more of it into the period between firing and full recoil, and less of it into the instaneous deceleration of the slide (which I believe causes most of muzzle flip as well as percieved recoil). The slide might return to battery with a somewhat greater amount of momentum, but this force is in the other direction and would not readily contribute to felt recoil.

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9mmMakarov

· #5 · Mar 8, 2005

(double post removed)

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Don

· #6 · Mar 8, 2005

Perception is the largest component, and most prefer the heavier spring. There are some that like the lighter spring, but I like the heavy spring in my XD40. I am indifferent to the heavy spring in my own 9mm, but many like it and there have been some arthritic users that reported that it made a big difference in comfort level for them. The big thing is how we handle the peak force, a heavy spring spreads that force out over time.
One of my projects that I am about a year behind on is mounting accelerometers on the front of my slide and taking real data on the g-forces with the various spring weights. Even with this, the data will be dependant on how I grip the pistol, so it will still be somewhat subjective but at least show what is happening for one user.

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mpholic

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 8, 2005

Well since this seems to be a subjective and personal preference issue I am very curious how both conditions will affect my wife and I. I have a Wolff extra power spring calibration pack and have on order a Wolff reduced power spring calibration pack, both for a 1911. Since the XD Tacticals can use 1911 gov't springs I am going to install them in my XD40 Tactical and test this for myself. This will obviuosly be a unscientific test since it will be based on mine and my wife's observations and not quantitative measurements. For anyone interested I will post our observations here.

Thanks for all your opinions.

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XD BACKUP GUN

· #8 · Mar 8, 2005

There is a Formula for measuring Recoil....I will go find it and poet it.
It has to doing with the weight of the gun and the bullet and some other things!

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wJAKE19

· #9 · Mar 8, 2005

Don said:
One of my projects that I am about a year behind on is mounting accelerometers on the front of my slide and taking real data on the g-forces with the various spring weights. Even with this, the data will be dependant on how I grip the pistol, so it will still be somewhat subjective but at least show what is happening for one user.

if you ever get to that project keep us informed, that would be great information for all shooters to have.

thanks don.

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