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Discussion Starter #1
so i was at the gun range a little while ago, shooting my Colt commander.
i was talking to the guy who worked there, and he was ragging on the bushmaster i just recently purchased.
he built his own, and told me thats what i should have done. I disagree'd and told him i wanted one right then and there, and not wait to put one together.

so he starts downing the Colt AR's for being POS's to which i couldnt comment on, he was wearing a Springfield 1911, and when i told him i had my Colt commander in my bag he replied "i'm sorry".. i left that one alone.

but i digress... he says that Bushmaster's Bolt Carrier Groups arent very good and will break. any truth to that?

so i was just curious. the guys a nice guy, i've chatted with him on many occasions.

cheers
 

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I always tell these asswipes "If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you"
 

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Any guy who tells you something like that probably knows little about AR's. The fact if the matter is, if I took his Bushy and your Colt and taped over all identifiable marks, and told him to tell me which is which, he couldn't. The guns are functionally damn near identical, just a different name stamped on it.
 

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Colt and Bushmaster are both very high quality ARs.

You are right to not engage these folks, the world is chock full of blowhards.
 

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Well I just read a artical in Guns&ammo on how the Colt was in a "Extreme Dust Test" in the fall of 2007 and had tested 10 of the same gun and shot 6,000 round through each rifle. There were 882 stoppages/malfuntions. In the summer test the Colt experianced 148 Class 1 and 2 weapon stoppages and 148 Class 1 and 2 magazine stoppages, for a total of 296 class 1 and 2 stoppages. The Clot M4 also had 11 class 3 stoppages. In the fall test the Colt had 624 class 1 and 2 weapon stoppages and 239 Class 1 and 2 magazine stoppages for a total of 863 Class 1 and 2 stoppages. In the test the Colt also had 19 Class 3 stoppages, meaning the Colt had 643 total weapon-related malfunctions. the Army defines stoppages with diffrent classes. Class 1 stoppages take 10 seconds or less to clear by the shooter. Class 2 stoppages take more than 10 seconds to clear by shooter. Class 3 stoppages require an armorer to clear. That is 1.47 percent stoppage rate which translates to 1.47 stoppages out of every 100 rounds fired. Now one might argue that this means the Colt M4 fired over 98 percent of the 60,000 total rounds without a problem. That might sound satisfactory to a layman, but if the EDT test protocol actually mimicked realistic infantry combat conditions, this stoppage/malfuntion rate would be way too high. The Colt M4 stopped once every 68 rounds fired, or one jam for a bit over every two magazines. The artical goes on and on so pic up a copy and check it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
should have clarified.. he made the colt comment about my colt 1911.. which is the screenshot i posted, the target from my trip today.. i own a bushmaster, he was telling me about a colt AR he had used at a range.

cheers
 

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Any guy who tells you something like that probably knows little about AR's. The fact if the matter is, if I took his Bushy and your Colt and taped over all identifiable marks, and told him to tell me which is which, he couldn't. The guns are functionally damn near identical, just a different name stamped on it.

Functionally is the key word here. The reason firearms from manufacturers like Bushmaster, DPMS, Del-Ton, etc.., cost less than LMT, Noveske, Sabre Sefense, BCM, and Colt, is because they cut corners from the original AR buld process to cut costs and get a less expensive rifle to the customer.

I would venture to say that 80% of AR owners will never push their rifle to the breaking point. Thus guys with Bushmasters and RRA carbines will never see the benefit of a M16 BCG, MPI 4150 Steel barrel, MPI and shot-peened bolts, M4 Feedramps, etc... (Just to name a few differences)

You will pay more for a Colt, LMT, Noveske, BCM, etc. because they are about as close to Mil-Spec as they get. For the average joe thats just gonna punch some paper, and use the rifle for a little HD, the likes of Bushmaster, DPMS, DTI, etc... wil be more than adequate. But for the guy who's gonna run his gun through multiple classes, with a couple of thousand rounds threw the pipe without a clean, those little differences add up to the reliability of the rifle.

With all of the above said, I've seen some Bushmasters put threw the ringer and make it threw, but in the same sentence I've seen many go down because of those little shortcuts. I have personally put nearly 2K rounds of Wolf w/out a clean threw my BCM build with out a hiccup. I did spray the BCG down with BreakFree CLP after the first 1K, which is beyond the military recommendations for proper lubrication (it recommends every 500rds if possible)

Be sure you get the gas key and castle nut properly staked...that's something that is usually very poorly done, if even attempted at all.
 

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screw that guy nice enough or not he is an azzhat

I support anyone who chooses to excersize there 2A and supports the right to bear arms

Like the poster above me pointed out 99% of AR owners will not benifit from the added test the bigger named put their rifles through

A buddy of mine started an abuse test over the summer (until it got to hot) we took 3 different rifles to the range and put about 2k rounds through each without cleaning or re lining them in 2k rounds only one had a failure and it was really an unfair comparison as it was 7.5" DPMS kitty katt and it failed at approx round 1800

The rifles we used were

A factory colt HBAR (rifle length)
A factory STAG model 2
A DPMS kitty katt

We were going to go until eavh one had a failure but then it hit 105 outside and we said f$&k it

2k round without cleaning is plenty good enough for me also out of every 100 rounds we bump fired 30 no real torture by any means but considering they were not meant to cycle that fast I found it pressive ((and lots of fun)

It's doubtful that your bushy's bcc will fail anytime soon but like mentioned above get the gas key properly staked and the cqsle nut well that while I don't agree with the statement about it I'll keepy reasons to my self
 

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I had a Bushy that I slammed many thousands of rounds through. Never a problem. It just ate up all of the ammo.
 

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Functionally is the key word here. The reason firearms from manufacturers like Bushmaster, DPMS, Del-Ton, etc.., cost less than LMT, Noveske, Sabre Sefense, BCM, and Colt, is because they cut corners from the original AR buld process to cut costs and get a less expensive rifle to the customer.

I would venture to say that 80% of AR owners will never push their rifle to the breaking point. Thus guys with Bushmasters and RRA carbines will never see the benefit of a M16 BCG, MPI 4150 Steel barrel, MPI and shot-peened bolts, M4 Feedramps, etc... (Just to name a few differences)

You will pay more for a Colt, LMT, Noveske, BCM, etc. because they are about as close to Mil-Spec as they get. For the average joe thats just gonna punch some paper, and use the rifle for a little HD, the likes of Bushmaster, DPMS, DTI, etc... wil be more than adequate. But for the guy who's gonna run his gun through multiple classes, with a couple of thousand rounds threw the pipe without a clean, those little differences add up to the reliability of the rifle.

With all of the above said, I've seen some Bushmasters put threw the ringer and make it threw, but in the same sentence I've seen many go down because of those little shortcuts. I have personally put nearly 2K rounds of Wolf w/out a clean threw my BCM build with out a hiccup. I did spray the BCG down with BreakFree CLP after the first 1K, which is beyond the military recommendations for proper lubrication (it recommends every 500rds if possible)

Be sure you get the gas key and castle nut properly staked...that's something that is usually very poorly done, if even attempted at all.
Yup, good post. All ARs are NOT created equal, contrary to what most people think.
 

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But for the guy who's gonna run his gun through multiple classes, with a couple of thousand rounds threw the pipe without a clean, those little differences add up to the reliability of the rifle.
[Translation] If you're the ultimate [email protected]$$, and need a rifle that can be abused (not maintained at all) and expected to withstand such abuse for over 3 times the amount of ammo that is included in the average American soldier's combat load, then you need a boutique, high dollar, Mil-Spec rifle. ;)

I'll just never understand this "requirement" that the folks on the net have taken to, presumably over a chart that someone put together, and the advent of these 1K round courses. Mil-spec is just that, the military specification. That doesn't necessarily discredit anything that isn't Mil-spec, and in some cases, Mil-spec isn't the way to go. The checkmate Industries magazines for the M9 are Mil-Spec, but they are known to be the worst Beretta mags available, and are responsible for lots of malfunctions.

I'm not a soldier, and I'm not silly enough to go play Rambo out in the streets when the S hits the fan. I've found that Bushies, RRA, Armalites, etc. are more than capable of staying in the game with proper & reasonable maintenance. I'm not so sure that running 1000+ rounds without maintenance falls into my definition of "proper & reasonable" maintenance, at least not with the traditional DI system.

Your mileage varies, and that's just fine...

B9
 

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Yup, good post. All ARs are NOT created equal, contrary to what most people think.
I agree, not all AR's are created equal... I just don't like the assclowns who put down, or don't have enough respect for people who can't afford the high end ARs. When in reality they need to think about a couple of things before they open their mouths and start putting in their so called $0.02.

But that's just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Be sure you get the gas key and castle nut properly staked...that's something that is usually very poorly done, if even attempted at all.
do you mean take mine to a smith and have it looked at? or if i was building one myself?

i dont plan on building one myself, nor do i intend to sell my bushy for something "better".

cheers
 

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I agree, not all AR's are created equal... I just don't like the assclowns who put down, or don't have enough respect for people who can't afford the high end ARs. When in reality they need to think about a couple of things before they open their mouths and start putting in their so called $0.02.

But that's just my opinion.
I agree my friend. And there are things you can do to make your AR run better if you don't have a high end system.
 

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do you mean take mine to a smith and have it looked at? or if i was building one myself?

i dont plan on building one myself, nor do i intend to sell my bushy for something "better".

cheers
Yes check to see if your gas key is staked properly as well as the castle nut. Upgrading your bolt/extractor to a MP bolt would help also.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yes check to see if your gas key is staked properly as well as the castle nut. Upgrading your bolt/extractor to a MP bolt would help also.
got links to where i can purchase these parts myself? and who do i get to check my castle nut? can any smith do this? or do i need to seek out a guru armorer?

cheers
 

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I've seen these threads and such all around the net. My Bushy has jammed 7 times in the 3 years I've had it. I'm lucky enough to have land to shoot on and don't have to go to a range, so my AR gets a lot of rounds put through it. It's only been to the range 1 time. It's home is outdoors, but not sand dunes. The only times it has jammed has been with Wolf ammo and way too many shots between cleaning. It' definitely not the best, but I'm perfectly happy with mine.
 
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