Yeah, real sick, indeedThat Titan looks sicks. DROOL.
NO KIDDING!!!You're comparing apples to lawn mowers.
Unless they have a company policy not to sell direct, you should be able to. They do have an FFL, after all.PTR ( or JDL ) is here in Connecticut, where I live. I may have to call them to see if at least they have a show room. I know I can't buy direct but i can get my local shop to. I'm very surprised that my local shops don't stock them. They say they have to stock at least 5 of them. And, the MSG 91 IS the one I'm considering. The costs are close but the PTR is a little cheaper. I'm pretty sure they build to requests. I would get the weld-on scope mounts if so.
ORD, that is a fine rifle with the best parts and well put together. That is what you need to do to a HK clone to make a MOA rifle. I guess let me rephrase, you need to really put some money and effort into making a HK clone shoot as well as a precision type 308 AR.NO KIDDING!!!
It is not fair to compare a battle rifle clone like the PTR-91 to a precision target rifle like the Titan. Aside from sheer rugged reliability, cost and cost of mags, the Titan wins hands down...but again, you are trying to compare a $900 battle rifle capable of 2.5-3MOA average accuracy out of the box with a $2K+ target rifle capable of MOA or better accuracy.
As for scope mounting...while scoping a PTR can be difficult, it is not impossible, nor will you have problems with the claw lock mount if it is not a knock off and it is mounted properly. If you don't want to go the claw lock mount, there are some great options for a clamp-on picatinny rail such as the B&T rail and the MFI, which will allow you to use and standard picatinny/weaver rings and accessories. Also, if you want to make a closer comparison between the Titan and an HK clone, look at the PTR MSG-91 Perimeter rifle which is a heavier target version of the PTR-91 with a Magpul adjustable stock, railed forend, and welded picatinney receiver scope rail. There are reports of these rifles being MOA or better capable with match ammo out of the box. The only one I have fired was at least capable of MOA accuracy with the BH 168gr ammo we used to test it.
Finally, while it is VERY possible to build an HK91/G3 clone that will compete with an AR-10 type rifle in terms of accuracy...they don't come cheap. The MSG-91 perimeter rifle will run you around $1800 without rings/optics, but is an excellent rifle.
I have to completely disagree with Cubicle Commando above when he says that he'd never put any money up in a battle of accuracy between a scoped AR and an HK clone. My MSG-90 clone has outshoot or held its own with every AR-10 type rifle it has come up against, except for a GA Precision AR-10 rifle which was consistently capable of near 1/2 MOA accuracy with handloads. My MSG clone will shoot sub-MOA out to 600 yards with proper ammo. This is an older pic before the build was complete...but you get the idea. Also, note that this was built on a JLD/PTR receiver with mostly original HK MSG-90 parts.
Again, which rifle is the best rifle is hard to say because neither were designed for the same purpose. I'd figure out your budget for the complete rifle, optics, mounts/rings, mags, etc., then determine what your intended purposes are for the rifle and then make your decision.
We're not talking Century trash here.We can also always talk about Surplus ammo issues and Bolt Gaps, that may help the original thread starter decide on which one he should get
The short stock on these rifles tends to be a problem for some.I found a dealer with a PTR 91SC. All things considered, there is one issue I must address. It didn't feel good in my hands. I don't know what it is, it looks mean as hell but not comfortable, especially when rapid lifting it from rest to aim & fire position. Now I'm really back to square 1. You can look and compare all you want but until you feel an actual rifle you don't know. I'm glad to touch one before ordering. NOW... I "tried on" a FN-FAL. WOW it felt good in my hands. It has a 20 inch barrel but thats what I want anyway. Does anyone have any experience with these?
If I'm looking for accuracy in a 7.62 it's not going to be a semi. "Performance"? What are you calling performance?The FN/FAL is not my forte', but I have heard good things about some and horrible things about others. From the ones I have fired, the DSA is hands-down the finest platform available for the FN/FAL series rifles. The only "issues" I have with them is that they are grossly overpriced for what you get. I mean, if it is still coming down to an FN/FAL OR the Fulton Armory Titan...they Titan wins in every possible category except for cheap mags. To get an FAL that will compete with the accuracy. performance, etc. of a Titan (if you can find one), will cost more than the Titan and won't be near the rifle.
Here is DSA's website:
-D S Arms
They'd be jumping into deep hot water, cause that aint what I said nor implied.Fixed it for you.
OTW, you'll have some very accomplished 'smiths jumping on ya.
You are right on...I haven't seen any of the "high end" FAL rifles, but if you want to point me to a smith or several smiths for the FN/FAL platform that will build a rifle with a 1 MOA accuracy guarantee (or better) and stand behind it for around the same $1800-2000 price tag as the Titan, I'd certainly like to know of those folks and to see their work. I am NOT (repeat NOT) badmouthing the FAL at all.I don't think you've seen some of the high end FAL 'smiths work.
Believe what you like, though.
The reason I'm speaking up is not to point out target grade FAL builders but the points being raised that "kit FALs are all garbage". A FAL (or any gun) made from a kit is as good as the gunsmith that assembles it and there are some really great FAL 'smiths out there that are being insulted by the above point.You are right on...I haven't seen any of the "high end" FAL rifles, but if you want to point me to a smith or several smiths for the FN/FAL platform that will build a rifle with a 1 MOA accuracy guarantee (or better) and stand behind it for around the same $1800-2000 price tag as the Titan, I'd certainly like to know of those folks and to see their work. I am NOT (repeat NOT) badmouthing the FAL at all.
Yeah, I wonder who that was.Again...as one of the other posters said...we are comparing apples and lawnmowers here