Springfield XD Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm having some trouble reloading fired .223 brass. Mostly with the sizing, but also the primer stage and crimping. Mostly once fired and always very well cleaned.
I'm using a Dillon 650xl. To get the brass to resize somewhat properly I had to remove the sizing ball that runs down inside the neck and adjust the die so far down that it hits the shell plate. Without the ball in the sizing die it loads better, but I still occasionally have a bullet that falls down the shell as the round comes out of the seating die. Before removing the ball nearly every bullet would fall down inside the shell.
The primers rarely seat right either. Usually they have to be forced in and get mangled. The crimp stage isn't working well either. Even with the die run down so much that it takes a lot of force to crimp I get an occasional loose bullet. They either spin or can be pushed further down the neck by hand.
With new brass all of the stages run through like butter. Never a problem. I think most of the problems are starting at the sizing stage. I feel like I may have to just start buying new brass, but that sucks since I have an unlimited supply of once fired.
By the way I also reload 9mm, .40, .45, 7.62, .38, and do not have any of these problems that I'm having with the .223. Any ideas of something I'm doing wrong or something new to try?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
For the primer problem, you need to ream the primer pocket of the once fired brass to remove any "stake" marks. You will only need to do that 1 time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,680 Posts
Get a sizing die that doesn't use a "ball." I find Lee dies to work great in my 650. I load thousands of rounds of .223s. I also don't crimp .223s; neither should you.

You'll need to take the crimp out of the primer pocket, as has been already mentioned. I always have to screw the sizing die down until it touches the shell plate, in order to properly bump the shoulder. As a matter of fact, I have to screw the die down until the handle "cams over."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Get a sizing die that doesn't use a "ball." I find Lee dies to work great in my 650. I load thousands of rounds of .223s. I also don't crimp .223s; neither should you.

You'll need to take the crimp out of the primer pocket, as has been already mentioned. I always have to screw the sizing die down until it touches the shell plate, in order to properly bump the shoulder. As a matter of fact, I have to screw the die down until the handle "cams over."
I will look into getting a Lee die for the Dillon. I have a Lee single stage I can use and thought about setting that press up just for sizing and doing everything else on the Dillon.
I'm not sure what you guys mean by taking the crimp out of the primer pocket. I use the deprimer on the sizing die to push out the spent primers, as I do with all my other rounds without problem. Is there an extra step I should be taking?
As for crimping, you mean just the seating die should hold the bullet in place? They always come out loose until it gets crimped, but I guess that may just be from not getting sized correctly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Get a sizing die that doesn't use a "ball." I find Lee dies to work great in my 650. I load thousands of rounds of .223s. I also don't crimp .223s; neither should you.

You'll need to take the crimp out of the primer pocket, as has been already mentioned. I always have to screw the sizing die down until it touches the shell plate, in order to properly bump the shoulder. As a matter of fact, I have to screw the die down until the handle "cams over."
I also use Lee Dies (I use a single stage press tho), I have the same issue although not as extream as what the OP describes. I find that a LIGHT crimp from the LFCD solves the problem. Why should these not be crimped? Just curious...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,011 Posts
I would deprime and resize your cases on a single stage before you run them through the 650.

Use an RCBS, redding, or forster..

You will only need to neck size as to not lengthen the case, you should trim your cases if need be. If using military brass, you will need to remove the crimp. either use a swager or crimp remover, i.e. rcbs..

You do need the ball to uniform the case neck for consistent loads and bullet seating.

I prep all my cases before i run them through my dillon and do not have any of the problems you mentioned. Rifle reloading is alot different than pistol, case prep is everything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,011 Posts
One should crimp your ammo if it is being fed through a semi-auto, not so with a bolt gun. with a semi, you have a chance of bullet set back if not crimped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
....You will only need to neck size as to not lengthen the case, you should trim your cases if need be...
I have always heard that in an auto-loader cases should be full length sized...everytime...and I trim my cases before each reload, don't always get anything off but it ensures without question that everthing is the same...:D

What kind of rifle is the OP reloading for?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
One should crimp your ammo if it is being fed through a semi-auto, not so with a bolt gun. with a semi, you have a chance of bullet set back if not crimped.
Exactly what I was thinking...was a little surprised to see the "I don't crimp and neither should you". As you said tho, not necessary in a bolt gun. I always use a light crimp on mine in my AR. Solves the minor issue that I am having similar to OP's but also prevents bullet set back...sucks to have a round chamber and have the bullet in the case with the powder I'm quite sure! :shock:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,011 Posts
I have always heard that in an auto-loader cases should be full length sized...everytime...and I trim my cases before each reload, don't always get anything off but it ensures without question that everthing is the same...:D

What kind of rifle is the OP reloading for?
If they are coming out our your gun and going back into it, neck sizing is fine.

I load 223 and 6.5 creedmor and only neck size. New brass and once fired that i have purchased is fully sized the first time, thereafter, only neck sizing. 223 doesn't stretch out very much at the case neck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
Question, Did you buy your dies new or used. If they were used they could be worn so much that they are not sizing the case neck small enough, thus the loose bullets.
Some factory ammo is loaded and the promer pocket is "staked". They take a tool like a punch and bend over the primer pocket edge to keep the primer in place. These tool marks need to be removed before you can insert a new primer. The process is called reaming the primer pocket. The reamer is like a drill bit and removes the tool marks. Steller & Beloit ammo has this process. What factory ammo are you shooting?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
If they are coming out our your gun and going back into it, neck sizing is fine.

I load 223 and 6.5 creedmor and only neck size. New brass and once fired that i have purchased is fully sized the first time, thereafter, only neck sizing. 223 doesn't stretch out very much at the case neck.
Thanks for the info! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I'm fairly new to reloading, been doing 9's and 40's for a while but just started on the rifle rounds a few months ago. It does seem much more difficult.
To answer some of the questions that were asked, I'm relaoding for a Stag, Mini 14, and 2 DPMS AR's. All of the guns shoot the rounds well, at least the few that haven't been crushed or the bullet didn't fall down in the shell. I've used quite a few different brands of brass, primers, and powders, and a few different brands and weights of bullets. All with the same problems. It seem like 1/3 of the rounds I make get ruined. The press and dies were all purchased new less than a year ago. I also have spoke to Dillon about some of the problems I'm having, and although they are the nicest folks to talk to, didn't seem to steer me in the right direction, other than telling me to remove the ball in the sizing die which did help a little bit.
I'll have to get a reamer for the primer pockets. This is news to me. I assume this is why the new brass takes the primers with ease. This has been very frustrating to say the least! I can pump out hundreds of pistol rounds in no time, but spend hours to get only a few rifle rounds, and ruin lots of new bullets, primers, and powder. This morning I spent about an hour to end up with less than 50 usable rounds with spent brass. I got so frustrated I emptied out the shell feeder, filled it with new brass, backed out the sizing die and ended up with 200 perfect rounds in about 30 minutes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Another couple of question.
I normally would only clean my spent brass in a tumbler then run them through the stages on the Dillon. If I start sizing, depriming, and reaming the primer pockets before I start running them through the Dillon, should they be cleaned a second time to remove and shavings from the reamer? I'm sure the brass needs to be cleaned before sizing so this would require two cleanings assuming it is necessary to clean after the reaming.
Just trying to figure out what steps to take. I'm thinking;
Clean
Size and deprime
Ream primer pockets
Clean again
Reload using Dillon skipping the sizing stage
Is this correct?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,732 Posts
No need to clean again after reaming the primer pockets. When you ream them it only takes about 1 revolution of the hand reamer and if you hold the case in one hand with the neck up, use the reamer with the other hand, all shavings will fall down and out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Jim522, I am new to the .223/5.65 reloading but I've done hundreds of 9mm and .308 with no problem, I picked up a swatch of newly fired (by the Police) shells at our local range (headstamped C J 95) which I believe is Norinco. They all jam even though I was really careful about o/a and using cannelure 55gr bullets just like the factory American Eagle, I could'nt even pull thebolt back so I had to break my M400 apart and gently pry the bolt back with a screwdriver - then it ejected ! The AE ammo run thru like silk. I suspect that the brass may have bulged a couple of thou and that is enough to cause a real tight jam ! ! I'm going to run a really full sizing on a couple of them that did jam and see if it cures the problem - heck it looks like the SIG M400 is very picky on what goes into it's opening. As for the primer pocket thing, I used the standard hand deburring tool (the one like a ccountersink)and gave each pocket a slight chamfer to get rid of the "staking" no more problems with setting the primers ! believe me. Hey has anyone got similar problems with .223 Thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,565 Posts
Jim522, I am new to the .223/5.65 reloading but I've done hundreds of 9mm and .308 with no problem, I picked up a swatch of newly fired (by the Police) shells at our local range (headstamped C J 95) which I believe is Norinco. They all jam even though I was really careful about o/a and using cannelure 55gr bullets just like the factory American Eagle, I could'nt even pull thebolt back so I had to break my M400 apart and gently pry the bolt back with a screwdriver - then it ejected ! The AE ammo run thru like silk. I suspect that the brass may have bulged a couple of thou and that is enough to cause a real tight jam ! ! I'm going to run a really full sizing on a couple of them that did jam and see if it cures the problem - heck it looks like the SIG M400 is very picky on what goes into it's opening. As for the primer pocket thing, I used the standard hand deburring tool (the one like a ccountersink)and gave each pocket a slight chamfer to get rid of the "staking" no more problems with setting the primers ! believe me. Hey has anyone got similar problems with .223 Thanks
I'm hoping that in the last 3 years Jim has figured out his problem. I suspect your issue is an incorrectly set sizing die. That assumes an OAL short enough to fit in the mag so that the bullet is not jamming into the lands and that the brass is trimmed at or below 1.760.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Welcome STUART
Best to start a new thread, as stated this one is 3 years old
I agree with ROD, sounds like your sizing die isnt set right.
Full length sizing dies seem to work best and trim anything above the
size listed by Rod

I thought AR's were illegal in canadia??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
thanks for all the info you folks are great - no AR's are just fine in Canada, only AK's are a banned weapon, and I have no idea what brilliant spark came up with that one ! anyhow as long as you have a restricted licence you are ok to buy any other semi. I tried trimminig the brass to match the factory ammo which is 1.738" and then resizing full length (twice to be sure) also noticed that head rim on ejected test ammo had a couple of small gouges so I polished those too. Made 4 dummy round and they all ejected just fine, so it looks like the case sizing was the issue. thanks guys
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top