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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I met up with a couple guys from work to go do some shooting in Northeast Md.

Got to the pistol range, set up, and started shooting. My friend Mike brought along his Glock 17. If I'm not mistaken this is a Gen 2 correct? (Btw I see why people like this better, man it felt great without the finger grooves).



Anyway, he loads a magazine and takes a shot. The magazine is blown out the bottom of the gun and the case is stuck on the extractor. He was shooting WWB 115gr ammo. Now he doesn't have the box they came in to get any batch numbers off of....and he tried the same batch of ammo 2 more times with the same problem. I gave him a magazine of some Winchester NATO 124gr to try out and it functioned fine.

He took the ammo out of the original box and put it in one of those plastic 50rd boxes. He isn't sure if he has the original and if he does which one. I told him to contact Winchester either way because this is what happened to the 3 rounds he tried out of his box.

I'm not an expert on reloading, so I ask for some assistance here. Do you guys know what causes this? Has anyone ever seen this happen before to WWB? I've shot tons of the stuff through multiple guns and never really had any issues. I'm just curious as to why or how. I tore the gun down for him and everything seemed to be fine, and like I said with other ammo it ran flawless.

Here's the pics









Any input would help. Thanks guys
 

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1st: Yes, that is a Gen 2. I agree with your assessment that it feels good, man. :D

2nd: Blowouts like that? Typically overcharged cases, or the bullet had set back into the case a large amount, usually caused by insufficient case mouth tension, poor handling while shipping, or repeated chamberings. Other causes are wrong powder being loaded into the case (powder that has a faster burn rate than what should be in there), or perhaps the wrong primer + too much of a powder charge.

Or, the pistol firing out of battery. Unlikely on that one, though.
 

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Looks like rifle powder reloads to me.

So you have a catastrophic failure and you do it again? Great way to destroy your hand.

Safety is a momentary choice. Prior performance and certification are completely irrelevant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Looks like rifle powder reloads to me.

So you have a catastrophic failure and you do it again? Great way to destroy your hand.

Safety is a momentary choice. Prior performance and certification are completely irrelevant.
Not me man, and I advised him not to shoot anymore of that ammo. But he's a stubborn 50 some year old hillbilly from Maryland that knows it all lol. I stepped back and let him do his thing.

Is it possible Winchester could have put rifle powder in pistol cartridges? He said he bought the ammo from Cabelas last weekend...I'm sure it could happen I suppose, but what are the odds of that?
 

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Well that certainly doesn't look good.
 

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I can't even begin to tell you how many 115 gr. WWB 9x19 range-fodder I've sent downrange in the last three years. My best guess is that it's well over 50K. I sent ~700 downrange over the course of the last week.

I'd place failure rate at less than 0.3% (zero-point-three percent), and I've only seen a visibly messed-up round once (it was so bad that virtually everyone at the range that day, including the instructors, agreed that it would have most likely simply failed-to-feed) through all that time. Of the 2K I sold to a friend who took my seat in a class I could not attend he shot all of it (in the span of the three-day class) without a hitch in his G19, reporting no failures.

It's really just like any other range fodder - no better, no worse. Over the course of the last ammo craze, though, it seemed like *every* range-fodder, be it new or reputable remans, all went a little downhill in terms of Q/C.

It's really too bad that he can't trace the lot number. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I can't even begin to tell you how many 115 gr. WWB 9x19 range-fodder I've sent downrange in the last three years. My best guess is that it's well over 50K. I sent ~700 downrange over the course of the last week.

I'd place failure rate at less than 0.3% (zero-point-three percent), and I've only seen a visibly messed-up round once (it was so bad that virtually everyone at the range that day, including the instructors, agreed that it would have most likely simply failed-to-feed) through all that time. Of the 2K I sold to a friend who took my seat in a class I could not attend he shot all of it (in the span of the three-day class) without a hitch in his G19, reporting no failures.

It's really just like any other range fodder - no better, no worse. Over the course of the last ammo craze, though, it seemed like *every* range-fodder, be it new or reputable remans, all went a little downhill in terms of Q/C.

It's really too bad that he can't trace the lot number. :(
I've shot tons of it too and I don't recall anything causing a malfunction with it. That's why I made this thread, because I was surprised.

Just talked to the guy and he doesn't know what he did with the 3 cases that blew up. But he thinks he found the box. So now when I get off work I'm going to double check to see if I accidentally picked them up when I was gathering my brass.

Actually I just remembered....I did have 2 WWB 45 rounds with the bullet set back too far. I know I have pictures of them, thought it was on my phone but I must have put them on my computer. I'll check on that after work as well.

That could have been the problem, being pushed back too far for whatever reason. I never looked and after asking him if he noticed anything he said no. Said they looked normal. The first one I'm not sure but I know he double checked the ones after before firing again.

Whatever happened to those rounds is not good. I've never seen a failure like that in person before.
 

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Looks like the cases failed where the chamber is unsupported. Only thing I don't like about blocks is the unsupported chamber. It may increase reliability , but my supported chamber guns don't have feed issues, so is it really necessary????

Yea probably an overcharge or setback like was already said, in combination w/ the unsupported chamber allowed the cases to blow out. Ye

that guy is nuts to pull the trigger a 2nd time !!!! lol

Glad no one was hurt. Stay safe!!
 

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is he positive they were factory loads and not some half-ass reloading hackjob? looks to me like somebody overcharged them with a fast powder--like a 9mm Major load worth!

Bullet setback is entirely possible, but I am kinda curious how he could have gotten 3 consistent results like that on a chamber as 'loose' as a Gen 2 Glock :confused: I suppose it is possible the crimp was sub-par and allowed the creep, but that is very matched results for such an event...wouldn't figure 3 in a row would duplicate that--unless it happened to be the worst box of Winchester ever produced (possible given their rep! )

Good thing he wasn't shooting a Hi-Point!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
is he positive they were factory loads and not some half-ass reloading hackjob? looks to me like somebody overcharged them with a fast powder--like a 9mm Major load worth!

Bullet setback is entirely possible, but I am kinda curious how he could have gotten 3 consistent results like that on a chamber as 'loose' as a Gen 2 Glock :confused: I suppose it is possible the crimp was sub-par and allowed the creep, but that is very matched results for such an event...wouldn't figure 3 in a row would duplicate that--unless it happened to be the worst box of Winchester ever produced (possible given their rep! )

Good thing he wasn't shooting a Hi-Point!
A guy next to us was shooting a Hi Point lol.

But no, he doesn't reload and swears he bought them brand new in the box. I believe him on that.

See I was wondering about the chamber as well on the Glocks, but I always heard about it being a concern for the .40cal. I'm sure the chamber support didn't help any but like you said the odds of 3 in a row is very strange.

Hopefully the brass is located, and it's the right box with the numbers he found. That way Winchester can be notified, and if it was indeed a mess up on their loading then others can be notified with the dangers of those rounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Looks like the cases failed where the chamber is unsupported. Only thing I don't like about blocks is the unsupported chamber. It may increase reliability , but my supported chamber guns don't have feed issues, so is it really necessary????

Yea probably an overcharge or setback like was already said, in combination w/ the unsupported chamber allowed the cases to blow out. Ye

that guy is nuts to pull the trigger a 2nd time !!!! lol

Glad no one was hurt. Stay safe!!
He said his hand "stung" afterwards....no @&%! is what I told him lol. He definitely has a hole in his marble bag because after the first I wouldn't have shot anymore of the ammo. But hey it's his body, do what you want to it.

Luckily though we all walked away unharmed. But it was something I never would recommend doing. I stood back behind a wooden pillar just in case when he insisted to keep trying.
 

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It wasn't factory whoever sold it to him in those bags lied or he was embaressed and he lied to you. There's no way he's the only one with 2+ times the powder load wwb. Wed have heard of others.

Safety is a momentary choice. Prior performance and certification are completely irrelevant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What you're saying is a very reasonable assumption... However I just see there being no reason to lie about where the ammo was obtained.

If he's telling the truth it's a big deal, if he's not then maybe this will teach him about buying random reloads from someone.

Either way it's not good.
 

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Could also be defective cases reemed to thin along the bottom.

I've had real mixed results with WWB in terms of accuracy but never seen them blow up like that. Makes me glad I reload.
 

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But no, he doesn't reload and swears he bought them brand new in the box. I believe him on that.
It wasn't factory whoever sold it to him in those bags lied or he was embaressed and he lied to you. There's no way he's the only one with 2+ times the powder load wwb. Wed have heard of others.
Does your friend trust where he got the ammo from?

Over the course of the last craze, we (as a community at-large, not just "we" in the "me and my friends" sense :p) have also seen less-than-reputable sellers literally "reboxing/"rebagging" ammo to sell.

Your friend could very well be telling the God's honest truth as he knows it - but that may not end up being the real source of the ammo!


Hopefully the brass is located, and it's the right box with the numbers he found. That way Winchester can be notified, and if it was indeed a mess up on their loading then others can be notified with the dangers of those rounds.
+1.

Also, typically, the big manufacturers and re-manufacturers will reimburse those who saw such problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Does your friend trust where he got the ammo from?

Over the course of the last craze, we (as a community at-large, not just "we" in the "me and my friends" sense :p) have also seen less-than-reputable sellers literally "reboxing/"rebagging" ammo to sell.

Your friend could very well be telling the God's honest truth as he knows it - but that may not end up being the real source of the ammo!




+1.

Also, typically, the big manufacturers and re-manufacturers will reimburse those who saw such problems.
He says he bought from the new Cabelas that just opened up in Delaware.

Now even with that, one time at the Cabelas in Hamburg...I bought a box of Herters ammo that was filled with Tula
 

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What you're saying is a very reasonable assumption... However I just see there being no reason to lie about where the ammo was obtained.

If he's telling the truth it's a big deal, if he's not then maybe this will teach him about buying random reloads from someone.

Either way it's not good.
He needs to ensure he is 1000% certain, beyond doubt, that these are factory loaded before he calls a manufacturer and accuses them of being at fault...they have dozens of ways of proving/disproving his claims; They won't likely take false accusations lightly or lying down...
if they indeed are factory loads, Winchester needs to know pronto so they can get their ducks in a row before somebody gets hurt; If they were some secondhand Gun Show Fodder, then of course he needs to fess up (hard to say either way at this point)

I have my doubts it was Factory Loaded Ammo--if it is, this may be the beginning of something noteworthy
 
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