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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was out shooting yesterday and there was another guy shooting a bran new full auto I was under the impression you could only own a pre ban m16 this was a bran new m4 all the bells sweet rifle I asked him about ti he was not the most friendly said he has a stamp and can own what ever he wants. Anyone help me out with what the law actually is ? I am in Wisconsin if that matters.
 

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Couple of possibilities here.
He could be a class 3 manufacturer with a prototype rifle.
Or
The rifle can be new, the sear is registered pre 86
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So as long as someone can get a stamp he could build a bran new rifle and just use a preban sear ?
 

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well if it was a brand new M4, it's either a dealer demo sample (which requires a letter from the BATFE which spells out how it's to be used) or he's LEO. You are correct, only pre-86 FA lowers can be transfered to private individuals or Trusts. Drilling the third hole in a AR15 lower changes the status of the firearm from long gun to machine gun, and the manufacture date of that machine gun is the day you drilled it, so it's not possible to make a transferable machine gun.

Now did it LOOK new, or was the roll stamp brand spanking new?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
[QUOTE="Knightslugger, post: 4614337, member: 24504"

Now did it LOOK new, or was the roll stamp brand spanking new?[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the reply's It looked new I did not look close enough the see the roll stamp like I said he was not a very friendly guy.
 

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Now did it LOOK new, or was the roll stamp brand spanking new?
Thanks for the reply's It looked new I did not look close enough the see the roll stamp like I said he was not a very friendly guy.
It could have been refinished, which is completely legal. He's probably good to go.
 

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So as long as someone can get a stamp he could build a bran new rifle and just use a preban sear ?

He could own what is commonly referred to as a DIAS or an LL.

What these are, are a Drop in Auto Sear, or a Lightning link.

What they do is either bump the disconnector at the correct time causing it to release the hammer when the bolt closes and strikes the link, or in the context of the auto sear, is exactly as it refers to.

Here are 2 fast video's that explain the two, and after you watch them, maybe you'll understand how they work.



Now with that said, the LL or DIAS itself is what is considered/classified as "the machinegun", not the receiver in this case.

You have to have a tax stamp to own either and both are very expensive to buy/transfer these days.

The other alternatives are that they are a manufacturer (which also requires a tax stamp), or an SOT (which is a dealer in machineguns--which also requires a tax stamp).

So yes, new machineguns can be made for the Gov't or certain police agencies or buy one that was already made/registered prior to May 17 1986 for mere civilians.

Another aspect is what is considered a dealer sample, which a dealer could have kept if it was in his inventory.

Hope this helps clear the air for you.
 

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Out here in AZ I see new and old full auto rifles all the time. M4s, MP5s, SP89s, M16s, etc. Some of the ranges even rent them. New or old, a stamp is all you need.
 

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Out here in AZ I see new and old full auto rifles all the time. M4s, MP5s, SP89s, M16s, etc. Some of the ranges even rent them. New or old, a stamp is all you need.
I think that's oversimplifying a rather complicated set of circumstances. just saying you need a stamp for new or old FA is not correct.
 

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I think that's oversimplifying a rather complicated set of circumstances.
Me too.

The NFA branch cannot approve new civilian legal machineguns after May 1986.

Mostly.

When I mentioned "new" machineguns, it was only in reference to manufacturers making them for Gov't or Agencies, or for an '03 SOT dealer.

There are very few exceptions for civilians. A REWAT would be one of those very rare exceptions, however, it would have had to been papered originally prior to May '86 nonetheless as a deactivated war trophy.

But that is getting out of the scope of this topic altogether.
 

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I think that's oversimplifying a rather complicated set of circumstances. just saying you need a stamp for new or old FA is not correct.
Me too.

The NFA branch cannot approve new civilian legal machineguns after May 1986.

Mostly.

When I mentioned "new" machineguns, it was only in reference to manufacturers making them for Gov't or Agencies, or for an '03 SOT dealer.

There are very few exceptions for civilians. A REWAT would be one of those very rare exceptions, however, it would have had to been papered originally prior to May '86 nonetheless as a deactivated war trophy.

But that is getting out of the scope of this topic altogether.
You're both right. I don't want to mislead anyone as it's obviously not as simple as getting a $200 stamp. I suppose I should have said that there are ways for civilians to acquire newish automatic rifles. I see a few and get to shoot some out at the Big Sandy Shoot. Most of are old surplus stuff but, as mentioned, there are some newer subguns.
 
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