Springfield XD Forum banner
1 - 20 of 163 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking for some help on powders for .357 mag and 9mm +P so when I see some I can buy it.
.357 possibly
Winchester 296 or Hodgdon H110
Ramshot silhouette or true blue

9mm possibly
Hodgdon HS-6 or Ramshot silhouette or True Blue

Any other powders to get max velocity in .357 or 9mm?

Bullets I'm going with 125gr in .357 and
115gr or 124gr.....I can't see 9gr making a practical difference....in 9mm unless the velocity between the two is significant.

I like just regular hollow points. What other choices in bullet style do they offer that would be good for close range?

I want to get 1400 fps or faster for .357 and 1200 or faster for 9mm.

Please feel free to change my mind for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
I can't speak for 9mm but for 357 I use H110 and H4227. Have fun and be safe. I enjoy a little recoil thumping now and again.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,879 Posts
If you're going to buy 2 different powders, add Enforcer or AA#9 to the list for .357 Magnum loads. Also, AA 4100 is the same powder as Ramshot Enforcer. These powders are slightly faster burning than H110/W296 and better suited to the .357's smaller case capacity, IMO, as compared to the .44 Magnum where H110/W296 is probably the top pick.

As far as 1200 FPS 9mm, or +P, Silhouette is about as good as it gets and 3N37 is also a solid choice. Data is going to be the problem for 9mm +P.

As far as 1 single powder to do both, definitely True Blue. Ramshot lists data above 1400 FPS for the 125 gr. XTP in .357 Magnum, but that was from a 6" test barrel. IPSC shooters that load MAJOR 9 use True Blue so it is plenty pressure stable for 9mm +P and I have made 9mm +P with it myself. Again, data is the problem. Ramshot will provide you with 9mm +P data, but their new ballistician has altered their pressure testing procedure where I believe, and he won't confirm, that he's using minimum dimension test barrels. Furthermore, he loaded 9mm +P with every powder in the Western Catalog which includes both Ramshot and Accurate powders while some of them are totally unsuitable (fast burners) for such loads. It is however, better than no data and using a chronograph is an absolute must for loading +P where you can compare your velocity to theirs and their data was developed with a 4" test barrel and could work out to your desired goal if you're using a longer barrel. I would NOT use any of the Western powders shown in the +P data that are faster burning than True Blue, and Silhouette is a solid choice for +P as I mentioned, but I would not use AA#5 that's between TB and Silhouette because it doesn't have the demonstrated pressure stability. With bullets 124 grs. and heavier, AA#7 is also a good choice, particularly for 147 gr. JHPs.

Their standard pressure data is safe to use where over-rating pressure adds a bit of safety margin and I recommend it to new reloaders because it will help keep them out of trouble pressure wise. There is data developed by their previous ballistician who I considered one of the most competent in his field, but you'll need the Ramshot 4.5 or 4.1 load guides for his data that hasn't carried over to the new Westen #5. The .357 Magnum data does carry over and is the same as listed in the 4.5 and 4.1 load guides. There is also good .357 Magnum data for True Blue in the Lyman Manuals where their data is a bit lower, but for my short barrel loads where I use True Blue that get fired from a 2 3/4" Speed-Six and a 3" SP-101 using the REM. 125 gr. SJHP, there hasn't been any need to even work up to the Lyman MAX. Charge where 10.1 grs. chrono's 1278 FPS from the 2 3/4" Speed-Six and will obviously be faster from a 4" or 6" barrel. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks 57K

I believe I want to get some hornady XTP 110gr bullets to if I can get the accurate no 9 powder. I might be able to get accurate no 7 but I really want the no 9. I like the stats of the 110 xtp for 357 mag. Its moving pretty good.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,879 Posts
AA#9 is plenty capable in the velocity department and I've made some very accurate loads with it in .357 & .41 Magnum. I got away from it because it's changed manufacturers several times, and now it's made in the USA. When I started using it, it was made in Czechoslovakia. Enforcer and AA 4100 come from Belgium and always have, so for me, there was less likelyhood of lot-to-lot variations and I've been very pleased with Enforcer for full Magnum loads.

I don't load many 110s, but #9 being somewhat faster burning as far as Magnum revolver loads go, it should work great for that. I also wouldn't underestimate #7 where I learned years ago from more experienced handloaders that it is a top choice for accuracy in .357 Magnum until true Magnum velocity is needed. It would work great for the 110s as well.

I've used #7 and other similar burning powders for my defense/short barrel loads including 3N37, Vectan SP2 when it was available, Power Pistol and Blue Dot. I like True Blue the best of any of them for this application and my velocity for the 2 3/4" Speed-Six is limited by the terminal performance of the REM. 125 gr SJHP that has a good deal of lead exposed at the nose. While I use them at 1278 FPS where 12 rounds give a Standard Deviation of 13, I know I could do even better with a bullet like the XTP where I'd likely load up to Lyman's MAX. Charge of 10.5 grs. because I believe accuracy would be as great as I've sen so far while SD should drop, maybe below 10 and from a 2 3/4" barrel, that's a lot to ask from any powder. Good Luck! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The test barrel is a 6 inch in 357 mag and the 110gr xtp is showing 1677fps.
I should be able to run my 4 inch barrel with the 110gr xtp with accurate no 9 in the 1400 fps range without loading the total max. Thoughts?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,879 Posts
The test barrel is a 6 inch in 357 mag and the 110gr xtp is showing 1677fps.
I should be able to run my 4 inch barrel with the 110gr xtp with accurate no 9 in the 1400 fps range without loading the total max. Thoughts?

Yeah, that should be no problem at all. You might want to look at my last post again because I added a couple of things since your last post. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks again 57K

Tomorrow I'm going to see if the store still has the no 9 and then I'll get some different bullets.... 110gr XTP and 125gr standard hollow point.....then I'll make up some loads very slowly up to max. with my chrono and see what velocity I can max out at and the accuracy. I might get into the 1500fps range. We will see.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,879 Posts
Thanks again 57K

Tomorrow I'm going to see if the store still has the no 9 and then I'll get some different bullets.... 110gr XTP and 125gr standard hollow point.....then I'll make up some loads very slowly up to max. with my chrono and see what velocity I can max out at and the accuracy. I might get into the 1500fps range. We will see.

You're welcome, buddy! If I were to buy a 110 gr, JHP, the XTP would be my first choice because it's probably constructed heavier than anything else which will help it hold together better if you do push them near or at Max. velocity. I have several hundred WIN. 110 gr. JHPs that I haven't gotten around to loading yet. I'll probably use them to make loads for my wife's M65 LadySmith that has a 3" barrel that I'd steal from her if I could get away with it, LOL! Not really because I'm very pleased with the Speed -Six. As far as 125's, XTPs will probably be what I'll go with in the future except that my favorite weight for my short barrel defense loads is 140 grs. and they'll work for deer as well pushed faster from longer barrels. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I found some no 9 and 2400 and sr7625

2400 and 7625 what do you think about these two and there uses?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oh and I found some 125gr xtp and 110gr speer gold dot hollow points. Thoughts about the GDHP?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,879 Posts
I found some no 9 and 2400 and sr7625

2400 and 7625 what do you think about these two and there uses?

2400 is just barely slower burning than AA#9. I'd go with #9 because it's capable as any for velocity in .357 Magnum with excellent accuracy if the American plant is turning out the same quality product. #9 is far denser as it's a very fine grained spherical (ball-type) at 935 grams/liter.

I'd buy 7625 if I ran across any. I don't use flake powders and haven't for more than a dozen years, but either 7625 or 4756 would be the exception because they're single-based powders where nitroglycerin is not added. Plus, they're smaller in physical size compared to other flake powders. 7625 is a very good powder for target type loads in .45 ACP and can be used for the same application in the 9mm. 4756 would be better suited for loading higher velocity 9mm loads where accuracy can be excellent. Both are being discontinued by Hodgdon, which is a shame. As far as flake powders, I think they're very unappreciated. The downside to that is you might get the 7625 and really like it, only to not be able to get it in the future. If it's at a good price, it's probably worth having on your bench. ;)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,879 Posts
Found some long shot to. Thoughts?

Remember I shoot 9mm and. 357/.38

Wouldn't be a top choice for me in 9mm or .45 ACP, but reloaders like JustSomeGuy like it for high velocity .40 S&W loads. In 9mm, Silhouette is hard to beat and 3N37 is very similar with more velocity potential with 147 gr. JHPs and I've used it for that with 147 gr. XTPs. AA#7 is also a good choice for anything 124 grs. or heavier and particularly 147s. V-V currently shows a load using the 147 gr. XTP with 3N38 rated over 1200 FPS from a 4" test barrel within SAAMI's Standard Pressure MAP of 35,000 PSI. As an example, loading with 3N37 in years past with the 147 gr. XTP and older Vihta Vouri data, a MAX. Charge is rated 1152 FPS from a 4" test barrel at 36,300 PSI/CIP which is the European PSI system that looks closer at PEAK pressure which will run higher than SAAMI PSI that tests MAX. Average Pressure, or MAP, measured mid-chamber. I can't say exactly how much greater the CIP PEAK PSI would be over SAAMI MAP without the proper pressure testing system, but even by the SAAMI PSI system PEAK pressure will always be higher than the MAP. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I bought:
1pound- sr7625
2pounds-accurate no 7
1pound- accurate no 9
1000- federal small magnum pistol primers
400-.357 110gr gold dot hollow points
I'm going to get some 125gr xtp .357 and some 115gr xtp when I can
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,879 Posts
I bought:
1pound- sr7625
2pounds-accurate no 7
1pound- accurate no 9
1000- federal small magnum pistol primers
400-.357 110gr gold dot hollow points
I'm going to get some 125gr xtp .357 and some 115gr xtp when I can

Looks like a great score! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks!!!!
They had more 7625...probably 3 more and they had a few different pistol powders as well as a few 2400 but no unique or bullseye that I read a lot of reloaders use. He mentioned a fire or problem in I believe Australia and alliant won't be shipping any of those two. Not sure if its true. They had varget that I know some rifle shooters use.
Mostly hodgdon and imr powder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,581 Posts
357 Magnum powders should be matched to the weight of the bullet being used.

For example using a slow burning powder like H110 with a light for caliber bullet like a 125 gn Hornady XTP will result in excessive flame cutting from the B/C gap flash and excessive muzzle blast and post barrel flame. BTW, been there done that and the produced load was LOUDER than a 500 Magnum with just 10 rounds downrange causing observable gas cutting on a virgin top strap.

Since that failed experiment I've come to a couple of conclusions. One is that just because you see a load listed in a manual that does NOT mean that it's a good load to try out. The section is that unless you limit yourself to just one weight of bullet you really will need a selection of powders suited to the bullet you'll be loading. To that end I've done some experimenting and you'll note that as the bullet weight increases the burn rate of the powder slows down. BTW, I really like Hornady's XTP line of bullets for Magnum Handgun loads because they strike a very good balance between cost and performance. I'll also note that the primers used on all of the following loads are CCI 550 Magnum Small Pistol.

First up is a bullet such the 125 Grain Hornady XTP, which can be safely driven to 1400 fps or a bit more without excessive bullet fragmenting on impact with a backstop or steel plate. The best powder I've found for this weight is Accurate #5, a relatively "fast" powder with a reputation for being a good "universal" powder. Another "univeral" powder that should be suitable is Unique which unfortunately meters poorly in every powder measure I have experience with. Since Accurate #5 meters perfectly in my RCBS Competition Handgun powder measure that is my go to powder for my 125 grain XTP loads. BTW, 10.0 grains yields 1250 fps out of the 4 inch barrel on my 620. I'll also note that Accurate lists 10.6 grains as maximum with this bullet but I detected some noticeable flattening of the primer at 10.3 grains so I would not recommend going any higher than 10.3 grains. Flash with this powder is fairly low and the report is a quick sharp crack indicating a burn rate well suited to the bullet.

Next up is the 140 grain XTP. Note, this is my favorite bullet for 357 Magnum because the POI coincides with the POI of my 38 special range loads featuring 125 grain plated bullets. For this bullet I started out using 17.5 grains of H110 and it works ok but it features a distinct booming report and a lot of B/C flash. Both idicators that the powder is too slow for this weight bullet. Recently I managed to pick up some Accurate #9 and this somewhat faster powder has proven to be an excellent match for the 140 grain XTP. The flash from the B/C gap is about 60% of that seen with H110 and the report is a sharp crack with no boom at all. I haven't chronographed this combination at this point but based on the recoil I expect that my 13.5 grain load is producing a velocity between 1250 and 1325 fps.

Finally there is the 158 grain XTP. I haven't tried this one yet due to just recently finding some bullets but in talking to a friend with lots of experience with the 357 Magnum a 15.7 grain load of H110 should be near perfect with a produced velocity of about 1225-1250 fps out of a 4 inch barrel.

Finally, note that my velocities tend to run between 1200 and 1300 fps, which may seem a bit slow for the 357 Magnum. There are two things you need to consider concerning this. First, out of a 4 inch barrel you really have to use a slower powder than what is ideal in terms of firearms longevity to achieve velocities higher than 1350 fps. Quite simply, you can get more velocity but you will increase the rate of flame cutting of the top strap exponentially. In addition on a K frame revolver you'll beat the snot out of the gun shooting these max power loads. Second, if you look into the barrel length used to produce the load data seen in most of the reloading guides you will find that a 6, 8, or even 10.5 inch barrel was used for the data published. There is a tip hidden here, for any Magnum load data a bit of investigation will reveal that the results for velocity are hyped a bit by using barrel lengths longer that what most shooters are using, so take those listed velocities and toss them to the side. Do NOT try and match the listed velocities unless you are actually using the same barrel length.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,879 Posts
Thanks!!!!
They had more 7625...probably 3 more and they had a few different pistol powders as well as a few 2400 but no unique or bullseye that I read a lot of reloaders use. He mentioned a fire or problem in I believe Australia and alliant won't be shipping any of those two. Not sure if its true. They had varget that I know some rifle shooters use.
Mostly hodgdon and imr powder.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over not finding Bullseye or Unique, both are over 100 years old. There are too many experienced handloaders that have yet to try True Blue that far exceeds its closest rival in terms of the best general use powder. Finding it is the problem! I've burned a good number of pounds of it since I first tried it around 2001.

I've never been one to use a powder based on economy. There are powders I could use in .45 ACP at half the powder charge weight with about half the ballistic uniformity.

Consistency in velocity means a great deal to me regardless of speed/bullet weight. If you find a load that performs exceptionally in terms of expansion/penetration, the best way you can be assured of the same performance every time comes through minimum velocity variations and very few powders come close in that regard compared to TB.

I agree with scooter123 to an extent. First, the burn rate and pressure characteristics of a powder should be what you match to a Magnum revolver cartridge. With a smaller case like the .357 Magnum or even the newer .327 Magnum, slightly faster burning powders in the Magnum class are where I'd start with Blue Dot as I did 28 years ago. After numerous reports of lot fluctuation, I got away from BD ( and all flake powders) that I was using in .41 Magnum and switched to sphericals like #9. Then I learned that #9 came from different sources and now is made in the US. Since I was already experimenting with Ramshot powders I figured I might as well try Enforcer.

The great thing about the .41 Mag, IMO, is that it will work well with a broader range of powders. In .357 Magnum, I'd be inclined to use one of the slightly faster Magnum propellants like #9. In .44 Magnum for full performance loads, it probably doesn't get any better than H110/W296 while you can use the full spectrum in .41 Mag.

BTW, AA 4100 is the same powder as Ramshot Enforcer. Look at the data in the latest version of whatever Lyman manual you have. For anything up to where a Magnum powder really needs to be used for MAX velocity, you won't find anything better than True Blue. ;)
 
1 - 20 of 163 Posts
Top