Well ive been kicking around the idea of building a cheapo poor mans limited pistol, mainly for informal plinking ...ok ok....random blastig of cardboard boxes, as fast as possible.....So. I have an xd40 service model, and kinda came up with this set up.....the mag well sold on pistol-gear.com, with either the base pads installed on stock hi caps, or....the grip extenders with the +1 rnd count. To adress the issue of the ejector making contact with the magazine upon insertion, maybe it could be possible to weld up a lip were as the mag wont slam into the ejector. That and plenty of WWB value packs to feed my hosing need. :twisted:
poor mans limited pistol...
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Just cut a little notch in the mag feed lip on the left rear, a clearance cut to clear the ejector. I've done this to every magazine I own (over 20) and haven't had any problems (broke 3 ejectors prior to doing this). Doesn't take much, make 1/64 inch or so deep and 1/4 inch long. Does not affect cartridge feeding.
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unless you're "slamming them home" on an open slide, you're not going to bust the ejector
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Hmmm... I played with this idea and have pretty much come to the conclussion the XD will never make a exceptable poor mans Limited blaster ( I do have some crazy ideas to make a 9mm Major Open gun out of one but I'm short on cash to do it).
Since to be somewhat competive you need to shoot 40 cal to make major and you will need at least 16 rounds if not 17 or 18 in at least one magazine to be competive. Well shooting 40 is not a problem for the XD but the 16+ magazine in 40 while still staying within the 140mm magazine length is very difficult if not impossible. Since the XD was orginally designed as a 9mm gun the magazines are too narrow to maximize capacity for 40S&W. I made a prototype magazine extenstion that let me get 15 rounds in an orginal 12 round XD-40 magazine. I think if I had made my own follower and trimmed the magazine spring a loop or two I could have got that 16th round in it but I'm not sure if that magazine would go in nicely with the slide shut.
So IMHO I think the XD is religated to being a good poor mans Limited-10 Blaster. That's what I am using mine for and doing pretty well at it.
And if your just having fun and don't care if your competive ingnore the first two paragraph and have fun blasting.
mcb
Since to be somewhat competive you need to shoot 40 cal to make major and you will need at least 16 rounds if not 17 or 18 in at least one magazine to be competive. Well shooting 40 is not a problem for the XD but the 16+ magazine in 40 while still staying within the 140mm magazine length is very difficult if not impossible. Since the XD was orginally designed as a 9mm gun the magazines are too narrow to maximize capacity for 40S&W. I made a prototype magazine extenstion that let me get 15 rounds in an orginal 12 round XD-40 magazine. I think if I had made my own follower and trimmed the magazine spring a loop or two I could have got that 16th round in it but I'm not sure if that magazine would go in nicely with the slide shut.
So IMHO I think the XD is religated to being a good poor mans Limited-10 Blaster. That's what I am using mine for and doing pretty well at it.
And if your just having fun and don't care if your competive ingnore the first two paragraph and have fun blasting.
mcb
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Using the same major/minor mentality, it brings someone to do some serious thinking about the new single stack 1911 division. Do you choose to run minor with 10rds or major with 8? Since most stages aren't single stack nor revolver friendly, would you rather be able to do 5 targets then reload keeping the gun hot, or else how do you take on the challenge with 8 instead?
Anyone know the difference (percentage-wise) of major vs minor for say a C class shooter? Basically take the scoresheets and score them major and minor, see what the overall match points difference is. If not, I'll dig out some sheets from somewhere.
Anyone know the difference (percentage-wise) of major vs minor for say a C class shooter? Basically take the scoresheets and score them major and minor, see what the overall match points difference is. If not, I'll dig out some sheets from somewhere.
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? Like releaseing (sp.) the slide lock and letting it slam back into place?ampleworks said:
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"Slamming it home", put the gun at slide lock and ram the magazine into the pistol. Pretty simple.
mullanman, while that's an interesting suggestion, the 5 points for the alpha you didn't get for the hit plus the 10 penalty points for the mike, dropping 15 points on a stage wouldn't compare to minor.
Ex: 60 point stage (let's say El Prez)
Time: 7 seconds
Major: 11A 1M, = 6.42 HF
Minor: 6A 6C = 6.85 HF
Even using the rash difference (to demonstrate the flaw) of hits between major and minor, the difference in points still do not makeup for the mike. Now if it came down to a larger stage say 120 or 160 points, it comes out to your idea. (160pt stage, using same result as above, 31A/1M vs 16A/16C, or 145pts vs 128pts, or 11.7% difference)
There is no reason someone cannot be competitive with shooting limited minor. Given, you probably won't beat Robbie, you can still be competitive.
If you get into L10, like Production, its all about the reloads. Good reloads shooting minor can overtake someone less skilled doing them shooting major.
mullanman, while that's an interesting suggestion, the 5 points for the alpha you didn't get for the hit plus the 10 penalty points for the mike, dropping 15 points on a stage wouldn't compare to minor.
Ex: 60 point stage (let's say El Prez)
Time: 7 seconds
Major: 11A 1M, = 6.42 HF
Minor: 6A 6C = 6.85 HF
Even using the rash difference (to demonstrate the flaw) of hits between major and minor, the difference in points still do not makeup for the mike. Now if it came down to a larger stage say 120 or 160 points, it comes out to your idea. (160pt stage, using same result as above, 31A/1M vs 16A/16C, or 145pts vs 128pts, or 11.7% difference)
There is no reason someone cannot be competitive with shooting limited minor. Given, you probably won't beat Robbie, you can still be competitive.
If you get into L10, like Production, its all about the reloads. Good reloads shooting minor can overtake someone less skilled doing them shooting major.
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hmmmm... that might be a good point about shooting minor. I'm afraid I have always shot Limited-10 major and so I mistakenly always see minor as a handicap, that is probably a not always true, especially in Limited where switching to minor can gain you ~20% magazine capacity. With an XD-9 you could surely get 21 maybe 22 rounds in a 140mm magazine that would function reliably in a XD. Has anyone ever seen a good study of weather the extra capacity can make up for the minor scoring? Are any of the Masters and Grand Masters out there shooting Limited minor? Hmmmm...
mcb
mcb
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Not when you can get a Brazos or Bedell gun shooting 175PF 40cal as tame as a 5" 9mm shooting 130PF, why use minor?
Now begins the quest to find my actual score sheets from a major match and just see what it would've done.
Now begins the quest to find my actual score sheets from a major match and just see what it would've done.
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One thing i've noticed when switching from IDPA to USPSA...I don't shoot any faster using minor loads.
I of course use a widebody STI in limited, but use an STI .40 Trojan for L-10.. i use the same reloads in both guns, both are long throated barrels and can handle the 1.2" length of my loads.
When i shoot IDPA i just shoot major power factor, i'm use to the gun working that way, with minor loads the gun is just slower, yeh recoil is less but the sight return is different and awkward.
With my statement regarding shooting minor as being a mike on a stage with major, not wholly accurate but it does tell you of the need for accuracy when shooting minor.
I of course use a widebody STI in limited, but use an STI .40 Trojan for L-10.. i use the same reloads in both guns, both are long throated barrels and can handle the 1.2" length of my loads.
When i shoot IDPA i just shoot major power factor, i'm use to the gun working that way, with minor loads the gun is just slower, yeh recoil is less but the sight return is different and awkward.
With my statement regarding shooting minor as being a mike on a stage with major, not wholly accurate but it does tell you of the need for accuracy when shooting minor.
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I think its time to make a spreadsheet on hypothetical stages!
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Since hit factor is [points-penalties]/time, a shooter can come out ahead if they can shave off enough time to compensate for losing a point for each B, C, or D hit. If the time remains constant for major/minor, then minor presents a disadvantage.ampleworks said:
As for mcb's question regarding Masters or Grand Masters out there shooting Limited minor, the results of this year's USPSA Limited Nationals indicated one Master shooting minor, with the top minor shooter finishing 37th (Unclassified and, if I read the results correctly, had one stage win). 10 of the 239 (not counting DQs) Limited competitors at the USPSA Nationals were listed as shooting minor power factor (I don't know how many of these were intentional or if any were the result of "surprises" at the chrono).
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I took the results from the 2005 Indiana sectiona, I shot did shoot production but so it can be compared to an alike division that shoots major, the HHFs listed on the spreadsheet are L10 HHFs for each stage. The difference was right at 5-6% give or take.
What does this mean? You'll have to shoot a stage roughly 5% better than the top shooter of that stage in order to makeup for minor versus major. Another problem is the shorter the courses of fire, the more that major factors into a higher HF. Ex: hoser stages with lots of points in a very short amount of time 50pts vs 60pts @ 5 seconds is a difference of two HF, or 16.67% less.
If you want to see the spreadsheet, you'll need at least Office XP. Spreadsheet link
Doing this was an interesting learning experience.
What does this mean? You'll have to shoot a stage roughly 5% better than the top shooter of that stage in order to makeup for minor versus major. Another problem is the shorter the courses of fire, the more that major factors into a higher HF. Ex: hoser stages with lots of points in a very short amount of time 50pts vs 60pts @ 5 seconds is a difference of two HF, or 16.67% less.
If you want to see the spreadsheet, you'll need at least Office XP. Spreadsheet link
Doing this was an interesting learning experience.
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