[TheManWithNoName]

Hi gang.
Well, I did it. Bought that XDM-9 and I have to say that I'm really impressed. Shot about 200 rounds through it at the range the other day with no problems. It is easy to shoot well. The trigger is good, but I'm not super thrilled with it... maybe just because I'm so used to the single action triggers on my Kimbers. I read somewhere that it would lighten up eventually after a few thousand rounds? Still it's a sweet gun and a good value too. Very happy with the purchase.

Anyway, at the range I was shooting Point of Aim and this gun was dead on. That's weird because I read in a lot of places that these were set up for a 6 o'clock sight position, and that's what I expected. Which is it? I know this topic was discussed before on this forum, but maybe it deserves another thread.

The XDM manual says that these guns were set for Point of Aim at 25 yards. Does this mean that at distances less than 25 yards, 6 o'clock sight position can be used? Perhaps earlier XD's or XDM's were set up for 6 o'clock sight position, but this has changed with the 9mm version or with the XDM's in general (just a guess). Am I reading too much into this?:roll: Someone with the knowledge please set the record straight.

Thanks in advance for everyone's input!

Here's a link:
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-m-discussion-room-xd-m/87376-xdm-accuracy.html
BTW, I'm not calling anyone out or saying that anyone is wrong - just some good old fashioned curiosity!

And the manual, in convenient pdf format (check out page 34):
http://www.the-m-factor.com/download/XDmSAFETYMANUAL.pdf

 

[chg211]

Congrats on your new purchase & it sounds like your enjoying it. Interesting that you seem to have a POM with your XDM-9 because my XDM-40 is most definetly a 6-o'clock POM and took a few rounds to get familiar with it. I got mine back in Sept and have run about 450-500 rounds through it and I think I may get a XDm-9 also because I really like the feel of these guns. It will be interesting to hear what other XDm-9 owners have to say about there POM -- best of luck !!

 

[dbfxdm]

My XDm 40 shoots POA at 25 feet. I have not had an opportunity to shoot it at 25 yards but it is still right on at 50 feet. I actually wanted it to be 6 o'clock since my other guns are setup that way but it's probably better for Home and Self Defense at POA.

 

[bookem]

My XD-M 40 is POA as well, and it sais POA in the manual. Maybe SA changed it on the newer ones.

 

[curlyjive]

The manual for the 9mm states that you may using POA at 25 yards, implying that under that may be 6'oclock. But it is not really clear, and I have not seen a definitive answer.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

I remember reading an article where the author definitely pointed out that the pistol was 6 o'clock. The article might have been about the XD, not the XDM however. I'll see if i can find it and post a link. Thanks for your responses so far guys!

 

[curlyjive]

Here is a copy/paste right from the XDm manual:

"Shooters may use a “point of aim” sight picture at 25
yards (See Figure 34-1.) This means that, at 25 yards, the
bullet should impact the target at the point visible at
the top of the front sight. Springfield, Inc.® firearms are
regulated to shoot point of aim, point of impact. changing
brand or type of ammunition may alter point of impact as
well as shooter's technique."

And here is the same info from the regular XD manual:

"Shooters may use a “point of aim” sight picture at 25
yards (See Figure 40-1). This means that, at 25 yards, the
bullet should impact the target at the point visible at the
top of the front sight. Shooters may also use a “6 o’clock”
sight picture to strike the center of the target. Springfield
Armory® firearms are designed to use the “6 o’clock” sight
picture at 25 yards (See Figure 40-2). However, some
firearms may shoot “point of aim” at 25 yards depending
on shooter and ammunition. Changing brand or type of
ammunition may alter point of impact."


SO to me this is a bit ambiguous for the XDm. First it says you "may use" which makes no sense. But in saying that it is referring to at 25 yards. So what is it at under 25 yards? And what does "may use" mean?

 

[TheManWithNoName]

OK, here's the article that I was thinking of:
Going over to the Dark Side - The Springfield Armory XD-9 Tactical Pistol

And here's a direct quote from the article (about halfway down the page):
"I did notice that I have a tendency to shoot high with this pistol. The manual says that the XD-9 is designed to use the "6 o'clock" sighting position at 25 yards, meaning that one should put the sights at the 6 o'clock position of the point you wish the bullet to impact. The manual should be taken seriously on this. The gun isn't sighted for "point of aim." shooting."

To be fair, this article is about the XD-9 Tactical, and not an XDM. However, the author is saying the opposite of what I'm hearing. Also, he is contradicting the XD manual! (Thank you curlyjive for providing what the XD manual says!) Now this is getting really confusing...

Furthermore, the images of the sight pictures shown in the article seem to be identical to the ones in the Springfield manual (well, the POA one at least.) Maybe the author is mistaken afterall? What a mystery!

Again, thanks for your input so far guys.

 

[curlyjive]

I guess what really gets me is the part about "shooters may use point of aim." Well either it is sighted that way or not!

 

[wedged]

Newbie question:

I think i may understand it , but can someone completely explain what all of this means ? What should i be seeing or how should i be looking at the sights and target ?

I seem to be hitting the targets a little low and to the left and yet i feel that i am aiming correctly. I feel for my level of experience (not much) my grouping is decent.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Wedged,

Check out this link: Sight Picture - Bob Tuley
I got it from another thread lost in the XD Talk forum. Like I said in the original post, this was probably discussed before maybe many times. (Just like everything else - it's been done before.) In this thread "Point of Aim" has been referring to a center hold sight picture.

Here's a link from another XD Talk forum thread with the same argument:
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/polling-place/20182-do-you-shoot-point-aim-six-oclock.html
It seems to me that some people have the point of aim, and others have the 6 o'clock, but not a standard to go by. There does not seem to be a rhyme or reason to it.

Here's a link to the XD manual which (I guess) started all of the confusion:
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/springfieldarmory_xd.pdf
The combination of vague wording and conflicting information together has contributed to my confusion.

My question is: Which is it? As curlyjive pointed out, it's either one way or the other. My hope is that someone who is very familiar with both the XD and the XDM (and possibly their manufacturing process and calibration) could put an end to all this confusion. Either way it may be fun hearing what everyone's experience with it has been.

I hope that someone could set the record straight.

Hope this helps. Safe shooting.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Wedged,

Oh and I almost forgot... Please check out this link also:
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-m-discussion-room-xd-m/82140-unacurate-shooting-my-xdm-why.html

As AZXD says, shooting low and to the left is often a combination of trigger pull and recoil anticipation. He has some quality information in his post (3rd one down).

Again, hope this helps. Safe shooting.

 

[wedged]

Thanks ! I'll make sure I read all of that. I'll be heading to an outdoor range this weekend to practice.

 

[FunkedOut]

i was going to send my XDm 9 out for night sights and trigger work before shooting it, until i read all this talk about POA/POI, so i headed to the range with 200rounds...

here is the first mag (all 19 rounds) at 21':

here are the last two mags (38 rounds) at 21':

i know, definitely not the best shot, but just wanted to share a point of data for sighting. this was off hand, no rest.
i lined up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight, with the center line (horizontal) of the target.

i've got a ways to go to get used to this trigger. the 1911 trigger is deeply ingrained in my mind, body and soul.
this one will probably go out to springer for some work.
after getting familiar with it, i felt an XD 9 Service model on the way out. the take up is much better on the XDm, the break is cleaner and the overtravel and reset is worlds apart. still no 1911, though. wonder if after the Springer trigger work, i'll still be wanting...

 

[Chris in Illinois]

I'll say that I put 200 rounds through my new XDm 9 this week and it definately was sighted POA at 25 feet. I also shot at 50 feet using POA and had what I thought was a sucessful grouping and target. I am excited to get outside and see what happens at 25 yards.

 

[fmwright]

Newbie question:

I think i may understand it , but can someone completely explain what all of this means ? What should i be seeing or how should i be looking at the sights and target ?

I seem to be hitting the targets a little low and to the left and yet i feel that i am aiming correctly. I feel for my level of experience (not much) my grouping is decent.

I've been hiding in the woodwork.

As is the case with any pistol that has non-adjustable sights, you have to determine for yourself where your POA/POI is. It will change for each different type of ammo you use. The instructions in the manual are a guide to help get you started.

FMW

 

[jcsandals]

So as you saw it says "Shooters may use a "point of aim" sight picture at 25 yards. This means that, at 25 yards, the bullet should impact the target at the point visible at the top of the front sight."

A sentence or so later "Shooters may also use a "6 o'clock" sight picture to strike the center of the target."

These two seemingly contradictory statements are not describing the XD or XDM. They are simply explaining that there are two main aiming points for firearms: 6 o'clock OR point of aim.

Now the manual goes on to say:

"Springfield Armory firearms are designed to use the "6 o'clock" sight picture at 25 yards. However, some firearms may shoot "point of aim" at 25 yards depending on shooter and ammunition. Changing brand or type of ammunition may alter point of impact."

So, the first two bits are just telling a new firearm owner the two common holds. The next bit then says that Springfield Armory and their XD's and XDm's use the 6 o'clock hold, not the point of aim hold. The last part then talks about ammunition altering the point of impact which I think most of us here acknowledge can be a factor.

Hope that clears up the user manual controversy a little.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum jcsandals.

 

[jcsandals]

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum jcsandals.

Thanks and sorry for bringing back an old post, but it seemed like there was still confusion. I didn't look at the post date