Springfield XD Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 209 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I handled a very strange AR today, a Saber Defense Industries XR-15A3 Light Weight. The lower receiver is made of glass filled polymer by Cavalry Arms for Sabre Defense. The lower, trigger guard, pistol grip and A1 length rear stock are molded as two halves and vibration welded together. Both the conventional upper and polymer lower are marked as Sabre Defense. The upper has a "conventional" midlength gas system/midlength hand guards. The carbine is very very light (6lbs soaking wet?). You cannot upgrade the stock, trigger guard, or pistol grip as it is all-in-one. The takedown and pivot pins are no-spec push pins and "go in the wrong way" left to right, the trigger and hammer pins are mil-spec, a carbine buffer/spring is used, the safety detent/spring goes in from above. An extra pin holds the buffer detent. The build quality was very good and all the controls worked well. The upper/lower fit was nice and tight. The bolt slipped into battery with the right amount of resistance. The pistol grip, being seamless, was very comfortable. I prefer 16" middies just as this one is equipped.

Cavalry Arms has been making polymer lowers for years.
Cavalry Arms

I can get this plastic XR-15 for $999 (SDI tactical soft case, two 30rd mags, otis cleaning kit, sling) at a local gun shop. It looks like Sabre Defense is marketing an inexpensive AR-15 for the masses. I have no idea about this gun's track record, but SDI is a small but high quality manufacturer that was recently awarded a contract to join Colt and FN in supplying M16's to our troops.

Sabre Defense XR-15A3 Light Weight (middy) for sale at local gun shop for $999


Cavalry Arms CAV-15 with carbine length gas system


Cavalry Arms polymer lowers in three colors
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
I think there will be two replies you will get.

1. This is plastic and its crap and I would not trust my life with it. (the purists)

2. This would make a good plinker or target gun, and might be worth it considering the market today. (the realists)

I personally think it would depend on what your planning on using it for.
Target shooting or personal protection/SHTF?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,752 Posts
personally i wouldnt buy it since you cannot change the stock and pistol grip out (both of which i have changed on both of my ARs) i dont think you wil lhave any problems with it breaking or not functioning so if you like it buy it. i just dont like it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·


I held it and looked it over pretty thoroughly. I don't think I would have to change anything. It has a nice shape just as it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
I look at it this way, that rifle costs about as much as a what many may call "normal" AR such as an M&P or Bushy, so I say why waste your money on a plinker that costs about the same as a duty rifle.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,583 Posts


I held it and looked it over pretty thoroughly. I don't think I would have to change anything. It has a nice shape just as it is.
NO!.. IT doesn't have a nice shape...

SHE has a nice shape...

:mrgreen:

I really just dont like the buttstock and receiver all being one piece. If something breaks (buttstock from coming in contact with a BG skull for instance) then your SOL. I can but my buttstock all day long and in the end, all it will cost me is the price of a new A2 or M4 stock. Easy and cheap.

Just ask them if you can buy the upper seperate, then build a traditional lower. Problem solved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
I handled one of these at a gun shop back in July/August. Build quality was good and price was right at $700. In hindsight, I should've thrown down the cheese on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think it is interesting that Polymer has proven itself as a material for XD handguns and PMags (both are very popular around here), but make a polymer AR lower and suddenly it is seen as an inferior material? Huh? The polymer Cavalry Arms lower was designed for the real world by a Desert Storm Veteran. I think it is a brilliant design that has alot to offer. It's light weight, rugged, unbreakable, impervious to the elements, ergonomic, and minimalist. These are desirable qualities in a firearm. The item I handled and can buy tomorrow is a Sabre Defense rifle, and they make top-notch quality guns.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,006 Posts
I think it is interesting that Polymer has proven itself as a material for XD handguns and PMags (both are very popular around here), but make a polymer AR lower and suddenly it is seen as an inferior material? Huh? The polymer Cavalry Arms lower was designed for the real world by a Desert Storm Veteran. I think it is a brilliant design that has alot to offer. It's light weight, rugged, unbreakable, impervious to the elements, ergonomic, and minimalist. These are desirable qualities in a firearm. The item I handled and can buy tomorrow is a Sabre Defense rifle, and they make top-notch quality guns.
Your the one who asked peoples opions on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,617 Posts
Is $900 the today price, or the 4 months ago price? I wouldn't throw down $900 for one considering you can build a decent quality "real" AR for that price (pre-obama), but I could see spending $600-700 on one for a decent range gun.

Considering finding a complete AR for under a grand is damn near impossible right now, for $900 it might make for a good first-timer gun for those wanting to get in the game but don't want to wait 6 months or pay $1500 for a so-so AR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,386 Posts
I think it is interesting that Polymer has proven itself as a material for XD handguns and PMags (both are very popular around here), but make a polymer AR lower and suddenly it is seen as an inferior material? Huh? The polymer Cavalry Arms lower was designed for the real world by a Desert Storm Veteran. I think it is a brilliant design that has alot to offer. It's light weight, rugged, unbreakable, impervious to the elements, ergonomic, and minimalist. These are desirable qualities in a firearm. The item I handled and can buy tomorrow is a Sabre Defense rifle, and they make top-notch quality guns.
Are you asking for our opinion? .. or trying to tell us what is the right response? I'm confused. I said it was gay because you can't change the buttstock, horrible design. It looks like you can't switch to a flat top so any optics will have to mounted on the carry handle, horrible design. Throw in the fact that is completely ugly and just about the same price as a traditional build. I'm sure the polymer is just as strong and would hold up fine. That's not my problem with it. My problem is that the design is limiting choices and options which goes against the grain of everything this platform is about. Than again, that's just my opinion and it doesn't mean much.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,006 Posts
Are you asking for our opinion? .. or trying to tell us what is the right response? I'm confused. I said it was gay because you can't change the buttstock, horrible design. It looks like you can't switch to a flat top so any optics will have to mounted on the carry handle, horrible design. Throw in the fact that is completely ugly and just about the same price as a traditional build. I'm sure the polymer is just as strong and would hold up fine. That's not my problem with it. My problem is that the design is limiting choices and options which goes against the grain of everything this platform is about. Than again, that's just my opinion and it doesn't mean much.
+1!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,565 Posts
Are you asking for our opinion? .. or trying to tell us what is the right response? I'm confused. I said it was gay because you can't change the buttstock, horrible design. It looks like you can't switch to a flat top so any optics will have to mounted on the carry handle, horrible design. Throw in the fact that is completely ugly and just about the same price as a traditional build. I'm sure the polymer is just as strong and would hold up fine. That's not my problem with it. My problem is that the design is limiting choices and options which goes against the grain of everything this platform is about. Than again, that's just my opinion and it doesn't mean much.
that and the gun is already very light ... you loose the modularity, and improve how ever slightly on one of its top advantages. I could run around all day with a 10 pound FAL, i am a big guy and used to carry big ladders and tools around 6 days a week 8 hours a day. I think this is a neat idea, probably made well, but its a solution to a problem that really isnt there for most folks. Are most folks begging for a slightly lighter gun and loosing the option to change or improve many parts of their rifle. Thats the MAIN appeal of the ar is 1, the round, 2 the history and design, 3 the modularity. You loose the modularity if you go this route.

Its only a few ounces. I see it like a regular joe buying a carbon fiber bike to race, and being a fat ass and lugging around 2 bottles of water with him that are greater difference in weight that the chro moly bike versus carbon.

Tons of fat asses out there wanting to buy lightweight gear when they are tubs of goo, and if everything else you have isnt optimized for low weight, i just dont think in the grand scheme of things a new reciever material is gonna make me or break me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,588 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Just to clarify:

1. I inspected and handled this gun today and the price is $999 for the complete rifle, two Sabre Defense 30rd mags, Sabre manual, and Sabre Defense soft case. I can buy it as early as tomorrow from a local dealer. Other Internet prices I have seen have been higher.
2. Only the lower half is polymer. The upper is a traditional (aluminum and steel) Sabre Defense marked complete upper. The lower is also marked Sabre Defense.
3. The rifle pictured in the first post is configured like the one I can buy. It has a flattop aluminum alloy upper, optics ready. It has the midlength gas system I prefer and which made it stand out amongst the other M4 look alikes on the rack.
4. The carbine pictured with the shapely model is an A2 shorty 9mm upper conversion. I am not talking about buying that one.
5. I have several other very nice AR's, so this one will not be my first AR. What I don't need is another M4 carbine look alike that everybody and their brother own. I am looking for interesting, yet functional additions to my AR collection.
6. I like guns that are minimalist, without everything plus the kitchen sink bolted on to them.
7. I am trying to keep an open mind, but I think many people who think polymer think inferior or cheap, when it is the basically the same material that is in XD pistols and PMags.
8. One review said the design drops one pound in weight. I cannot verify that yet, but that is a significant amount of weight lost. It is the lightest AR-15 I have ever held, and I have held quite a few.
9. The only other person posting on this topic so far that has seen and held this rifle wished he had bought it.
10. This gun is REAL and looks to be a good shooter and a good goto gun. It is not a stop gap until I can get my hands on a real AR. I have some AR's already, thank you.
11. The many parts that make up a regular AR-15 lower can be out of spec, assembled wrong, under or over torqued, or break at the various connections. This one piece design is unbreakable. No more damn staked/unstaked castle nuts!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,752 Posts
i think its a good idea and a good rifle if it is set up how you want. but if your like me who likes to swap stuff out (doesnt sound like you are) then it wouldnt be a good choice. but if its set up exactly how you want then it should work great. for me its not a quality concern its just the modularity or lack of it that i dont like.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,386 Posts
No one has said that they thought that polymer was inferior or cheap. I don't know where you got it. Everyone has said quite the opposite. No one finds that to be with the problem. I don't know why you're taking this so personal, you're the one who asked for opinions. If you want the rifle, get it. I'm not going to be the one who has to live with it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
353 Posts
I think it is interesting that Polymer has proven itself as a material for XD handguns and PMags (both are very popular around here), but make a polymer AR lower and suddenly it is seen as an inferior material? Huh? The polymer Cavalry Arms lower was designed for the real world by a Desert Storm Veteran. I think it is a brilliant design that has alot to offer. It's light weight, rugged, unbreakable, impervious to the elements, ergonomic, and minimalist. These are desirable qualities in a firearm. The item I handled and can buy tomorrow is a Sabre Defense rifle, and they make top-notch quality guns.

I have no reservations about purchasing a poly lower but the thing I don't like is the buttstock. If one could change it out then I would definitely buy such a rifle.
 
1 - 20 of 209 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top