Springfield XD Forum banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

This is news to me and I wanted to see if you guys had more information.

I heard a clip on my local news this morning about the Milwaukee Police Department suing the city of Milwaukee (but not Sig?) over the troubles experienced with their new duty weapon.


The most recent "AD" happened with a holstered firearm.


The police association threatened a lawsuit a year ago if the firearms were not replaced.


The news report from this morning said they have not had a response from Sig Sauer. It seems the Sig P320 has had issues for some time but the manufacturer has not issued a recall.


Forgive me if this is old news. I did my due diligence and searched the forum before posting this information.

Have any of you P320 owners had an issue? Are you familiar with this issue? Thanks for sharing your experience.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,090 Posts
Ok.

I do not own a P320 (have in the past, though), so…I have ZERO dogs in this fight.

9.9999/10 accidental discharges are human-caused…and then blamed on faulty design.

Convince me this is different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi,

Ok.

I do not own a P320 (have in the past, though), so…I have ZERO dogs in this fight.

9.9999/10 accidental discharges are human-caused…and then blamed on faulty design.

Convince me this is different.
I'm not here to convince anybody of anything. I'm trying to gather information and satisfy my curiosity. All I know so far is what I've read in these articles. Can you add something that would enlighten us?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
  • Like
Reactions: robert1952

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,090 Posts
Hi,



I'm not here to convince anybody of anything. I'm trying to gather information and satisfy my curiosity. All I know so far is what I've read in these articles. Can you add something that would enlighten us?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Let me sum up.

Guns do not go bang on their own; they require human interaction…this is the crux of many pro-gun arguments.

Is there verifiable evidence that these pistols fired all by themselves…or was it from the user finger-f***ing their gun when they shouldn’t?

In short, is their real proof it wasn’t user error, like the vast majority of other negligent discharges?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
Ok.

I do not own a P320 (have in the past, though), so…I have ZERO dogs in this fight.

9.9999/10 accidental discharges are human-caused…and then blamed on faulty design.

Convince me this is different.
Didn't some Remington 700 rifles go bang when the safety was switched to the off position. I thought I remembered a few people actually got hurt.

Im with you that the majority of firearms just don't shoot themselves but there are some bad designs out there. The Citadel Bosshog shotgun locking lug is just plain scary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,909 Posts
Didn't some Remington 700 rifles go bang when the safety was switched to the off position. I thought I remembered a few people actually got hurt.

Im with you that the majority of firearms just don't shoot themselves but there are some bad designs out there. The Citadel Bosshog shotgun locking lug is just plain scary.
Yes, if someone got their grimy Dick beaters inside and messed with the trigger it could happen. Sear’s not adjusted properly if you pulled the trigger with the safety on it would drop the sear off the trigger ledge but the safety would hold it, and then when the safety was tripped = bang. It was also too handy for people to have their fat finger on the trigger when switching the safety off. I also would like to add that they could have designed it better and added a block so the trigger couldn’t move with the safety on and the safety couldn’t be pushed off with pressure on the trigger.
I also like the article above where the cop had his weapon “secured in a cloth in his gym bag” Doesn’t anyone have a friggin brain anymore??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,090 Posts
Hmm
Didn't some Remington 700 rifles go bang when the safety was switched to the off position. I thought I remembered a few people actually got hurt.

Im with you that the majority of firearms just don't shoot themselves but there are some bad designs out there. The Citadel Bosshog shotgun locking lug is just plain scary.
Yep; there was that claim.

If there was proof, Remington should be nailed to the wall…and, I do believe they were, so there must’ve been proof.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,250 Posts
.

There are other articles also saying Sig has settled on AD lawsuits.
If there isn't a problem why would they settle?

Don't forget the voluntary recall they had for drop issues.

I bought a used 320 last week, hope it isn't one that shoots all by itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,402 Posts
My old lady has a 320c and has had no problems with it. It’s been in her purse, (in its own compartment of it, not bouncing around with the 10 million other pieces of junk in that bottomless hell hole lol), been in the glove box of her car, center console, and been holstered in her for a few years. Hasn’t ever gone off except when she pulled the trigger.

As for the drop test, I think that was a very specific angle, like right on the back of the slide at the perfect angle to hit the slide just right, and it would go off. If I remember right, it was not an angle that was required to be tested, or commonly tested anyways, which is why it wasn’t known until someone got it in their head to try and make it fail. That’s why it was voluntary and not a mandatory recall I believe.

Anywho, for the last 8 years or so she’s had hers, haven’t had any issues. It’s actually a very nice gun in my opinion for what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
.

There are other articles also saying Sig has settled on AD lawsuits.
If there isn't a problem why would they settle?

Don't forget the voluntary recall they had for drop issues.

I bought a used 320 last week, hope it isn't one that shoots all by itself.
Buddy I missed you 😆
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
Here's a perfect example of a bad design.
Gas Office equipment Bumper Nickel Cylinder

Bumper Bicycle part Office supplies Trigger Carbon

This is a picture of the barrel extension with the locking grove, and a picture of the locking lug. It's so minimal, it literally locks by an 1/8 of an inch. Granted both my guns have yet to fail, but I'm sure this is there failing point. Not good!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi,

Can you add something that would enlighten us?
Let me sum up.

Guns do not go bang on their own; they require human interaction…this is the crux of many pro-gun arguments.

Is there verifiable evidence that these pistols fired all by themselves…or was it from the user finger-f***ing their gun when they shouldn’t?

In short, is their real proof it wasn’t user error, like the vast majority of other negligent discharges?
So, that would be a "no".

I have no evidence of anything, just links to lawsuits and stories of malfunctions. I was curious about this community's thoughts and opinions.









I haven't found any story yet that involved a Serpa holster.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Hi,

This article mentions the Serpa holster. It seems Officer Hilton's firearm was in the holster, in the purse. Is not a holstered gun a safe gun? Hmmm. But the article goes on to point out several discrepancies between certain interviews and stories regarding the same incident. Interesting.

It seems, at least in a few incidents, there were also some basic gun safety rules ignored. Despite...

"...Officer Hilton’s attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, “It’s not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. You would have to conclude there’s a problem with the product, not with the people."

The article noted this...

"...Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was “performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.”

Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when it’s pointed at an extremity?..."

Even though there are those here who don't care for TTAG, I found this a very reasonable article, very enlightening. Thanks for sharing.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
  • Like
Reactions: robert1952

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
Ok.

I do not own a P320 (have in the past, though), so…I have ZERO dogs in this fight.

9.9999/10 accidental discharges are human-caused…and then blamed on faulty design.

Convince me this is different.
Case in point: Alec Baldwin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,826 Posts
All kinds of "weird" stuff happens to products/tools in the field that the engineers/production folks never thought about. Does that make them liable because someone does something with a "tool" that isn't normally done?

Remember the Audi unintended acceleration lawsuits 20 years ago (or was it 25/30 years ago). Everyone said it was Audi's fault. They tested, tested, tested and could not duplicate the problems many drivers had that caused accidents/deaths. Then someone broke the numbers down and found out 90% or more of the incidents happened with one type of driver. These days you can't state facts as facts can be racist, sexist, or something or other based on hurt feelings rather than FACTS. In the end the issue was not the cars at all, but the drivers, but it cost Audi millions of dollars in research, lawsuits and last sales.

Nope, don't have a SIG 320. Probably won't buy one either. But not because of the stories about them going off. I've got one SIG and it doesn't impress me on paper (not yet, but not done working with it either).

These days people are taught someone else is always responsible for their mistakes. The news has no problem reporting what they hear vs. what they learn/know to be facts. Anytime we hear "news" remember the word used so much, even by the "news" these days - narrative. These days it's about the "narrative" not about the truth/facts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Nope, don't have a SIG 320. Probably won't buy one either. But not because of the stories about them going off. I've got one SIG and it doesn't impress me on paper (not yet, but not done working with it either).
Yeah, this sums up my opinion completely. The only one I'd even remotely consider would be the P320-M18, because it has a manual safety, but at this point the Hellcat Pro is the biggest pistol I'd actually buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi all,

Thanks for your discussion. I really appreciate it. I didn't mean to re-open a can of worms. A very recent local news story piqued my interest.

Let me be clear. I loathe holding firearms manufacturers responsible for "stupid human tricks" just as much as I loathe holding manufacturers liable for illegal uses of their products. That was not my intention. I merely wanted to tap into the hive mind mentality on the subject.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
  • Like
Reactions: robert1952

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi,

All kinds of "weird" stuff happens to products/tools in the field that the engineers/production folks never thought about. Does that make them liable because someone does something with a "tool" that isn't normally done?
I've heard it said that once you invent something that's idiot proof, somebody will invent a better idiot. ;)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top